Petition to stop garments sale on eBay

[Jeff_Ricks]

My son sent me this link to a petition to stop garments being sold on eBay. Some of the comments people have posted are funny and enlightening (click the numbers links at the bottom of the page for more comments:

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?GARMENTS&151

Jeff

[aether]

Hi Jeff!

Yeah someone posted this link in another thread. I found it very interesting to read all the comments, from members and non-members alike. It made me wonder what the right thing really is here? Since these things really are sacred to people (the fact that it's underwear doesn't seem to matter), should anyone really sell them on Ebay like this? I keep thinking if there were something sacred to me, I wouldn't like people using it for other purposes than what it was made for. Then again, I can't think of anything too overly sacred to me. What do you guys think?

[why me]

Hi Jeff!

Yeah someone posted this link in another thread. I found it very interesting to read all the comments, from members and non-members alike. It made me wonder what the right thing really is here? Since these things really are sacred to people (the fact that it's underwear doesn't seem to matter), should anyone really sell them on Ebay like this? I keep thinking if there were something sacred to me, I wouldn't like people using it for other purposes than what it was made for. Then again, I can't think of anything too overly sacred to me. What do you guys think?

First, I think that the person who is selling the garments on ebay has issues with the church. This person can be a member or non-member but he or she is coming from a position of bitterness or hatred. I cannot be sure of this but this is my speculation. Second, those things which people hold religiously sacred should not be sold in such a way which would cause offense. And I think that the person selling the garments meant to be disrepectful. And this would be wrong in my opinion. This world needs more tolerance and not less tolerance. We also need more love and understanding. Regardless of how a person may feel about his or her own religious experience, they need to respect the wishes of the believers when it comes to that which is held sacred by those believers. Why cause pain or hurt?
"What the world needs now is love sweet love...." :)

[silverfox]

Hi Jeff!

Yeah someone posted this link in another thread. I found it very interesting to read all the comments, from members and non-members alike. It made me wonder what the right thing really is here? Since these things really are sacred to people (the fact that it's underwear doesn't seem to matter), should anyone really sell them on Ebay like this? I keep thinking if there were something sacred to me, I wouldn't like people using it for other purposes than what it was made for. Then again, I can't think of anything too overly sacred to me. What do you guys think?

I would want to know how other religious sacred items are handled on Ebay.

Remember the grilled cheese that sold for thousands of dollars because it appeared to have the image of Mother Mary on it?

I think sacred means different things to different people.

This would be a moral issue more so than a legal one. Who is buying these things anyway? The street preachers? I can see some disappointed buyers.

The church has made them so "secret" that it is curiosity that makes people buy them.

I don't care either way about them being sold on Ebay. Ebay would have to look at the legalities and how other religious or sacred items are handled and just be fair with all of it.

[dogzilla]

I could have sworn I posted about this already.

I read a number of those comments and thought it was quite funny. Thing is... nobody's selling garments on eBay. It's an urban legend. Or else it stopped a long time ago.

See for yourself. Go to eBay and do a search. You won't find any for sale.

[dogzilla]

Oh yeah, here we go: http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=264

I first addressed this (read: made fun of indignant TBMs... or was that ignorant?) in post #22 on page 2.

[silverfox]

I could have sworn I posted about this already.

I read a number of those comments and thought it was quite funny. Thing is... nobody's selling garments on eBay. It's an urban legend. Or else it stopped a long time ago.

See for yourself. Go to eBay and do a search. You won't find any for sale.

Yep, dog, you did. Jeff needs to stop working so hard and have more fun around here!!!! (we miss you Jeff)

I personally knew someone who sold some on Ebay months ago. Well, he listed them but the church complained, Ebay pulled them, then Ebay sent an apology to the guy who listed them because legally Ebay couldn't stop the sell. So others started posting them. There have been in the past many garments sold on ebay. This may have changed in most recent months. Not sure - I haven't tracked it. I think that pretty much the email is very old news.

I don't think it is necessarily an issue with bitterness or hatred all the time. I think it may actually be healing to do something like this. It means that to THAT person they are no longer a slave to their "sacredness". It's not that they want to hurt anyone else, IMHO, they are freeing themselves and this may be one of the most rebellious ways to do it -to publicly say ENOUGH I AM DONE I DON'T BUY INTO THIS ANYMORE AND I WILL PROVE IT. This seems to be the attitude of the person I knew who tried to sell them. He is very happy with his life now and was at the time he was selling them.

If I could sell my garments (I threw them away) I'd do it in a heartbeat. They mean nothing to me. I wouldn't do it to hurt anyone or even show disrespect - it would just be a business transaction.

Would I knowingly sell them to a street preacher who will use them to taunt members? No. I'd give them to him for free. JUST KIDDING!!!! No, I don't condone the taunting by street preachers and wouldn't want to do anything knowingly to enable it.

I really wonder who buys these things and why.

Hey, maybe I am more over this Mo'ism crap more than I thought I was????

[peter_mary]

I also believe someone sold (or listed) an expired Temple Recommend on e-bay. Not sure what ever happened to that one, but I think much of the hoopla blew over when it was understood that you couldn't sneak in the temple with an expired recommend. (Although I altered my driver's license as a minor, I wonder if you could figure out how to do likewise with the recommend?) For that matter, how hard would it be to counterfeit the stupid things? I can see a booming business on e-bay for counterfeit temple recs that are "guaranteed to get you in so you, too, can wear silly hats!" :duh Yeah, I'd want one of THOSE...

Peter_Mary

[dogzilla]

<snip>
I really wonder who buys these things and why.
<snip>

I would like to buy a set and make a very weird scarecrow for the garden.

:D

[peter_mary]

I would like to buy a set and make a very weird scarecrow for the garden.

:D

And that way, if her garden ever burns to the ground, at least her scarecrow would be protected. :D

bada-bing!

Peter_Mary

(okay, I admit, I'm guilty of making light of sacred things. Here, just to keep things equal, I'll flush a Quran down the commode and torch a crucifix, and trample underfoot the Bhagavad Gita. Just don't tell Newsweek...)

[silverfox]

I also believe someone sold (or listed) an expired Temple Recommend on e-bay. Not sure what ever happened to that one, but I think much of the hoopla blew over when it was understood that you couldn't sneak in the temple with an expired recommend. (Although I altered my driver's license as a minor, I wonder if you could figure out how to do likewise with the recommend?) For that matter, how hard would it be to counterfeit the stupid things? I can see a booming business on e-bay for counterfeit temple recs that are "guaranteed to get you in so you, too, can wear silly hats!" :duh Yeah, I'd want one of THOSE...

Peter_Mary

It wasn't that long ago that one of the church pamphlets sent to resigning members was on auction. It was going for 18.75 but the reserve had not been met by the time the auction ended.

[templenamesarah]

I just did a quick search, and although I did not see any garments for sale, I did find temple clothes:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3264&item=8194289162&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

I also found the very amusing "Mahana You Ugly" doll:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=63869&item=5395007520&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

And this t-shirt has a very cute ad that states:

Oh my heck! It's the newest and funniest T-shirt on eBay! If you don't buy this flipping shirt then you're just plain crazy.

You need to get this t-shirt, if not for you, then for that special spirit in your life who loves you with every fiber of their being.

This is the greatest thing since green jello salad with carrot shavings in it!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15687&item=3954952368&rd=1&ssPageName=WD1V

[nate]

(Although I altered my driver's license as a minor, I wonder if you could figure out how to do likewise with the recommend?) For that matter, how hard would it be to counterfeit the stupid things? I can see a booming business on e-bay for counterfeit temple recs that are "guaranteed to get you in so you, too, can wear silly hats!" :duh Yeah, I'd want one of THOSE...

Peter_Mary


haha. As a graphic designer and desktop publisher, I can confidently tell you that it would take me no more than an hour or two to create fake one, just as long as I have an old one to look at. :p

[dogzilla]

And that way, if her garden ever burns to the ground, at least her scarecrow would be protected. :D

bada-bing!

Peter_Mary

(okay, I admit, I'm guilty of making light of sacred things. Here, just to keep things equal, I'll flush a Quran down the commode and torch a crucifix, and trample underfoot the Bhagavad Gita. Just don't tell Newsweek...)

I would think the mere sacrilege of stuffing a set of garments with straw and putting a silly hat on top would cause lightning strikes directly to my garden, thus causing the burning to the ground scenario.

It's the same reason I won't fly through Salt Lake. I'm afraid I'll burst into flames just touching sacred mormon soil. :rolleyes:

[silverfox]

Here are a few links:

Ebay standing up to LDS church
http://www.aimoo.com/forum/postview.cfm?id=418550&CategoryID=121363&threadid=1311737&highlight_key=y&keyword1=ebay


Garments on Ebay
http://www.aimoo.com/forum/postview.cfm?id=418550&CategoryID=121363&threadid=1201796&highlight_key=y&keyword1=ebay

and

http://www.aimoo.com/forum/postview.cfm?id=418550&CategoryID=121363&threadid=1201796&highlight_key=y&keyword1=ebay


Temple Tokens on Ebay
http://www.aimoo.com/forum/postview.cfm?id=418550&CategoryID=121363&threadid=1774871&highlight_key=y&keyword1=ebay

And following which was a little over a year ago is when the petition first started to appear

http://www.aimoo.com/forum/postview.cfm?id=418550&CategoryID=121363&threadid=1414147&highlight_key=y&keyword1=ebay

[mutleydog]

Mmmmm....has anyone noticed the link....it has a section for contributions to keep the petition going...seems a little iffy to me! Especially since I have never found garments of ebay and I frequent the site alot......makes me wonder whether someone out there is making an extra few dollars out of this urban legend!! :eek:

[silverfox]

Mmmmm....has anyone noticed the link....it has a section for contributions to keep the petition going...seems a little iffy to me! Especially since I have never found garments of ebay and I frequent the site alot......makes me wonder whether someone out there is making an extra few dollars out of this urban legend!! :eek:

I have seen garments on Ebay for sale - some used and some were packaged, brand new. I think when the first set was posted it got lots of bids but once more and more people started doing it the uniqueness wore off and it was no big deal any more.

The links I provided are about people who have tried to sell garments on Ebay. This was over a year ago. This is all old news really.

[darkslider]

I know of one instance personally where a TBM tried to stop the sale of garments.

This associate actually bid $12,000 on 1 set of garments. He paid out. His justification? "I would rather file for bankruptcy than see my sacred covenants in the hands of filth."

Kind of enlightening, really.

[peter_mary]

This associate actually bid $12,000 on 1 set of garments. He paid out. His justification? "I would rather file for bankruptcy than see my sacred covenants in the hands of filth."


Anyone besides me thinking, "Damn, I had a gold mine in my top drawer, and didn't even know about it. Now it's too late..."

:slap: :duh :slap:

Peter_Mary

[elder_nomo]

Too bad TBMs don't spend as much time and energy on eliminating social injustice or sexual abuse within their church, or something else that actually matters. Wouldn't it be great to see them care as much about human beings as they do about their stinkin' undies?

[Born Free]

I find it informative to throw around a few "What if"s on this one.

We reason "Mormons regard TGs as sacred, and even if we don't agree with their assessment, we will honour their beliefs". THat is the problem (downside) with having evolved to the point of feeling some empathy with another's position. Of course we have all observed that Mormons are not terribly good at returning that favour to other people and religions.

OK, let me add some shades of grey.

Nazis regarded certain of their regalia as scared, particularly the SS, who were into some quasi-religous stuff in a BIG way. If some of their gear came up for sale on the internet, how might we feel about that, considering the same criteria applies.

What makes TGs sacred? They are just fabric, with some button holes in strategic places. Where in the manufacturing process do they become "scared"?

Of course, when we were TBMs we tended to be more concerned with the other end of the TG life cycle - when do they become unsacred? Can you use them as car polishing rags?

We were taught when the markings were cut off, so does that mean on the TG production line they are unsacred up to the button-holing machine and then scared after it? :duh

Are the button-holing machines special; maybe blessed in some way; blessed and set aprt, like Temples? (You are no longer a pleb button-holing machine; you have been valiant in the pre-existence and there worthy to be called in this life for a special work, making magical button holes :cool: )

Or are a battery of priesthood holders employed to bless the TGs as they are boxed after button-holing? Wow, wouldn't that make the warehouse where they are bulk-stored really special? Think of how spiritual you would feel after a working week driving the fork-lift there!

You guys are in Utard. I suspect that the manufacturing process will be surprirsingly "unholy", so do some detective work. (God forbid! I just realised that in this day and age, they are probably manufactured in Asia by people cursed with the dark skin of Cain. :eek: But then again, they might only add the holy button holes back in Utard using non-cursed souls! Whew!!!)

So I am guessing the holiness is more in Mo heads than in the TGs. The simple solution to all this profanity is to have a TG commissioning and decomissioning ordinance. Just like there is a rote sacrament prayer, then there will be a standard TG 'holification' prayer and then at the end when they are ready for car polishing rags, you run the 'unholification" prayer.

God, its a curse having one of these brains that processes grey!

Daryl (the Irreverent)

[silverfox]

I find it informative to throw around a few "What if"s on this one.

We reason "Mormons regard TGs as sacred, and even if we don't agree with their assessment, we will honour their beliefs". THat is the problem (downside) with having evolved to the point of feeling some empathy with another's position. Of course we have all observed that Mormons are not terribly good at returning that favour to other people and religions.

OK, let me add some shades of grey.

Nazis regarded certain of their regalia as scared, particularly the SS, who were into some quasi-religous stuff in a BIG way. If some of their gear came up for sale on the internet, how might we feel about that, considering the same criteria applies.

What makes TGs sacred? They are just fabric, with some button holes in strategic places. Where in the manufacturing process do they become "scared"?

Of course, when we were TBMs we tended to be more concerned with the other end of the TG life cycle - when do they become unsacred? Can you use them as car polishing rags?

We were taught when the markings were cut off, so does that mean on the TG production line they are unsacred up to the button-holing machine and then scared after it? :duh

Are the button-holing machines special; maybe blessed in some way; blessed and set aprt, like Temples? (You are no longer a pleb button-holing machine; you have been valiant in the pre-existence and there worthy to be called in this life for a special work, making magical button holes :cool: )

Or are a battery of priesthood holders employed to bless the TGs as they are boxed after button-holing? Wow, wouldn't that make the warehouse where they are bulk-stored really special? Think of how spiritual you would feel after a working week driving the fork-lift there!

You guys are in Utard. I suspect that the manufacturing process will be surprirsingly "unholy", so do some detective work. (God forbid! I just realised that in this day and age, they are probably manufactured in Asia by people cursed with the dark skin of Cain. :eek: But then again, they might only add the holy button holes back in Utard using non-cursed souls! Whew!!!)

So I am guessing the holiness is more in Mo heads than in the TGs. The simple solution to all this profanity is to have a TG commissioning and decomissioning ordinance. Just like there is a rote sacrament prayer, then there will be a standard TG 'holification' prayer and then at the end when they are ready for car polishing rags, you run the 'unholification" prayer.

God, its a curse having one of these brains that processes grey!

Daryl (the Irreverent)

Daryl - you make some valid points that I have been pondering but am at a loss for words to describe what I was feeling. That's why I stated that sacred means different things to different people. And also made the comment that Ebay should be considerate and fair of ALL things people deem sacred which is impossible. You can't please everyone and business is business.

I understand that the garments are blessed by the priesthood after they are manufactured. I have no idea if local holders take turns going in and blessing them or if a paid employee does it.

I know of several women who work at the factories. You have to be temple worthy and possess a temple recommend to work there as with any church job. I know to many of them it is just a job. I am sure the fabric touches the floor and "oh shits" are spewed all over them at times. That makes me giggle for some reason.

Sacredness is such a very personal thing, IMHO.

[helemon]

Nazis regarded certain of their regalia as scared, particularly the SS, who were into some quasi-religous stuff in a BIG way. If some of their gear came up for sale on the internet, how might we feel about that, considering the same criteria applies.


I think it is illegal to sell such items on e-bay at least in Europe. But personally I wouldn't want someone trying to profit from the depravity of the Nazi's nor would I want anything associated with them to become highly valued or prized. It should be burned like the books they destroyed or locked up in a museum. It should not be allowed to become some sort of demented holy relic to skinheads.


(God forbid! I just realised that in this day and age, they are probably manufactured in Asia by people cursed with the dark skin of Cain. :eek: But then again, they might only add the holy button holes back in Utard using non-cursed souls! Whew!!!)


Asians don't have the curse of Cain silly! :slap: But I wouldn't be suprised if child labor was involved in the creation of TGs. Maybe they call people on a mission to make TGs? That is better than slave labor! People actually paying to work for you! :duh

[helemon]

I understand that the garments are blessed by the priesthood after they are manufactured. I have no idea if local holders take turns going in and blessing them or if a paid employee does it.


They should insert a little tage with each garment:
"Blessed by priesthood holder #241"
or
"Blessed by LaVron"

Ok that made me giggle. :D