Two characteristics of the posters here...?

[why me]

I realize that I am running the risk of putting people in a box which is never healthy to do but I have been reflecting on something lately. I suppose our two new members (Verity and dancinfree) brought this to the fore for me. It seems that we have two main types of poster: the emotional and the intellectual. I can identify with the emotional poster...the posters that speak with heart and soul--the ones who write with inner poetry. But then there are the intellectual posters--they write with beautiful minds and transmit knowledge and understanding rather astutely. I am an emotional poster...the intellect is out to lunch when it comes to doctrine and history. But it seems to me that the emotionals and the intellectuals are co-existing quite well as we blend the emotional with the intellect. Of course there are also posters who cross the boundary between the emotional and intellectual. But do I have a point here? I know that I am grateful for the emotional poster and also for the intellectuals but it the emotionals who speak to my heart...thank you 'emotionals' for helping me through the day... :) And thank you 'intellectuals' for increasing my knowledge (if I can understand it all :D ) :)

Do you consider yourself to be an emotional or intellectual poster..? Now don't be shy...we are all inwardly 'naked' here... :rolleyes: And is there a third type of poster or a fourth type...

[templenamesarah]

Do you consider yourself to be an emotional or intellectual poster..? Now don't be shy...we are all inwardly 'naked' here... :rolleyes: And is there a third type of poster or a fourth type...


You left out the other kind of poster: the Hot 'n Sexy poster. ;)

Seriously, I never considered the issue in such an academic way before. I would hesitate to try to sort the posters by putting them in either one category or the other.

I'm just happy to have found this safe haven. I appreciate you all.

[dogzilla]

And then there is the type you put up on the wall with thumbtacks.



:duh



Oh, you mean THAT kind of poster.



:D



I would consider myself to be the token comic relief poster, with the occasional intellect-motional serious comment thrown in so that you all know I have slightly more depth than a bird bath.

[peter_mary]

I'm more of a "posterior"...responsible for much of the gas on this site.

Peter_Mary

[dogzilla]

I'm more of a "posterior"...responsible for much of the gas on this site.

Peter_Mary

Ummmm, yeah, well. We've been meaning to talk to you about that...

[why me]

Ummm...after reading some of the comments I now realize that I was a little drunk when I wrote about emotional and intellectual posters...I wonder how I got that idea...intellectual?...emotional...? Let me think this one over again...but I do like hot n' sexy with a tinge of humility...now I DON'T WANT THIS TO BECOME ANOTHER SEXED UP THREAD WITH HORNY POST-MO'S POSTING THIER INNER EMOTIONAL AND OUTER HORNYISMs...okay ladies...give us horny men a break....! Now lets get serious again...and stick to the thread... :duh

[dogzilla]

Ummm...after reading some of the comments I now realize that I was a little drunk when I wrote about emotional and intellectual posters...I wonder how I got that idea...intellectual?...emotional...? Let me think this one over again...but I do like hot n' sexy with a tinge of humility...now I DON'T WANT THIS TO BECOME ANOTHER SEXED UP THREAD WITH HORNY POST-MO'S POSTING THIER INNER EMOTIONAL AND OUTER HORNYISMs...okay ladies...give us horny men a break....! Now lets get serious again...and stick to the thread... :duh

Hey, you brought it up. ;)

[aether]

I think I know what why me is talking about here... like the difference between people who leave the church because of academic stuff, like history and flaws in scripture and such. And then there's the people who leave the church because it "feels" wrong to them, and they realize it's emotionally destructive.

In general that's probably a legitimate difference... except that I didn't do either one. Mine was a combination of both. I dug deeply into the very doctrine of the church.. not the history or anything, but the gospel itself.. and it felt wrong to me. So where do I fit in? :( I don't wanna be left out (also a danger of putting people in boxes).

[why me]

I think I know what why me is talking about here... like the difference between people who leave the church because of academic stuff, like history and flaws in scripture and such. And then there's the people who leave the church because it "feels" wrong to them, and they realize it's emotionally destructive.

In general that's probably a legitimate difference... except that I didn't do either one. Mine was a combination of both. I dug deeply into the very doctrine of the church.. not the history or anything, but the gospel itself.. and it felt wrong to me. So where do I fit in? :( I don't wanna be left out (also a danger of putting people in boxes).

In my opinion, you are definitely emotional/intellectual and you fit right in. But then again we all fit right in regardless of our 'box' or characteristic and this is what makes this forum so unigue. Regardless of the characteristic, we fit perfectly within the other boxes...and we each bring our unique 'box' personality into the other boxes and make people feel good and accepted within the greater box...This is what you do with your posts...!
:)

I suppose I wanted people to post who they are within this forum and then at the end, we could have brought it to a pleasant conclusion: that within this communtiy the 'you' is accepted and respected regardless of who you are within this community. :) But maybe we are not comfortable in putting ourselves within a human picture frame.

[free thinker]

I think it is difficult to categorize posters here as intellectual or emotional. I think we cross the lines back and forth on a regular basis.

I will say this though. Mormons place a great deal of value on emotion. They will walk over miles of intellectual information about the church, without looking down, just to reach a one foot space of emotional warmth.

I think this is problematic because it is emotionalism carried to an extreme IMHO. Any extreme it seems, will generally create problems in the long run.

Free Thinker

[taegan]

I think it is difficult to categorize posters here as intellectual or emotional. I think we cross the lines back and forth on a regular basis.

I will say this though. Mormons place a great deal of value on emotion. They will walk over miles of intellectual information about the church, without looking down, just to reach a one foot space of emotional warmth.

I think this is problematic because it is emotionalism carried to an extreme IMHO. Any extreme it seems, will generally create problems in the long run.

Free Thinker

I think I'm more of an emotional poster..... I'm not very intellectual :Crazy: lol

[miss taken]

I think it is difficult to categorize posters here as intellectual or emotional. I think we cross the lines back and forth on a regular basis.

I will say this though. Mormons place a great deal of value on emotion. They will walk over miles of intellectual information about the church, without looking down, just to reach a one foot space of emotional warmth.

I think this is problematic because it is emotionalism carried to an extreme IMHO. Any extreme it seems, will generally create problems in the long run.

Free Thinker

Hey, Maybe that is why testimony meetings were so emotionally charged (and draining!!!).
Mary

[Born Free]

Hey, Maybe that is why testimony meetings were so emotionally charged (and draining!!!).
Mary

I believe that would be a great question to kick around.

My first response is that they frequently drip with guilt around not being perfect, about "sin", about masking, and that all the above are absolutely draining. :Puking

How often did you see sincere comfortable humanity? And how did that contrast with the above? :)

THat WAS uplifting. But how rare was it? :rolleyes:

Daryl

[Born Free]

You just may have noticed I could be filed in the 'heads' camp! :o

I have worked on getting some dialogue between my intellect and my feelings, and have some considerable distance to go, but I am now making good progress. (That split nearly cost me my marriage)

Let me propose that this head/heart thing can be taken to another level. Can we be low functioning head, and low functioning heart?

Can I live in my head (logic), but still be quite unskilled at good logical thought?

Can one live in their heart (emotions) but still have quite low EQ?

I believe I see a lot of low grade IQ and EQ within Mormonism. BY contrast, I observe in this community that whether people are heads or hearts, most appear to be consciously or unconsciously attempting to dial up their lower or complimentary functioning. Any takers?

Daryl

[dancinfree]

First of all, I love boxes!! All kinds! I have so many boxes that describe me so I freely and joyously look at my emotional box and I give a resounding YES! I have a very large emotional box from where my verbal and written word automatically flow from, it seems to me. I might also add though that my intellectual box had a large contribution to my growth out of the church..it seemed quite a mixture really but the idea of damnation and needing a "saviour" intellectually made no sense to me. Yet, I can see that behind that intellectual look is a "feeling" of making no sense, based on the fact that I love my children and if they wanted to be with me, I would NOT turn them away, so why would MY God? Am I greater than GOD? I guess you could say that I fired my last God and hired a new one... :D

Also, I don't trust the written word as much anymore. Histories can be changed...so many perspectives of truth. Different translations of meanings...it all seems so subjective. I choose to follow my experiences, which are mostly emotional with some intellectual brought in for spice!!

[free thinker]

I love my children and if they wanted to be with me, I would NOT turn them away, so why would MY God? Am I greater than GOD? I guess you could say that I fired my last God and hired a new one...


I can relate to this. I never, in my heart , could beleive in the mormon god. He always seemed so arbitrary. I always have had a deep feeling that whoever god is, it is very loving, and completetly accepting. The force of life and good. It draws no lines of distinction in the human family. As it says in the BOM.. " all are alike unto god.."

Free Thinker

[why me]

First of all, I love boxes!! All kinds! I have so many boxes that describe me so I freely and joyously look at my emotional box and I give a resounding YES! I have a very large emotional box from where my verbal and written word automatically flow from, it seems to me. I might also add though that my intellectual box had a large contribution to my growth out of the church..it seemed quite a mixture really but the idea of damnation and needing a "saviour" intellectually made no sense to me. Yet, I can see that behind that intellectual look is a "feeling" of making no sense, based on the fact that I love my children and if they wanted to be with me, I would NOT turn them away, so why would MY God? Am I greater than GOD? I guess you could say that I fired my last God and hired a new one... :D

Also, I don't trust the written word as much anymore. Histories can be changed...so many perspectives of truth. Different translations of meanings...it all seems so subjective. I choose to follow my experiences, which are mostly emotional with some intellectual brought in for spice!!

Ummm...I think I am falling in love.... ;) You said this so well...I can see where your daughter gets her emotional/intellectual box. Dancinfree you are very poetical in your prose...I am not trying to flatter you here :rolleyes: but have you read poetry and if so, who is your favorite poet? I have enjoyed Emily Bronte because of her inner sadness but I have also enjoyed Sylvia Plath and Sara Teasdale in trying to come to terms with my own soul...thanks for your posts...I am glad that you are here... :)

[dancinfree]

Ummm...I think I am falling in love.... ;) You said this so well...I can see where your daughter gets her emotional/intellectual box. Dancinfree you are very poetical in your prose...I am not trying to flatter you here :rolleyes: but have you read poetry and if so, who is your favorite poet? I have enjoyed Emily Bronte because of her inner sadness but I have also enjoyed Sylvia Plath and Sara Teasdale in trying to come to terms with my own soul...thanks for your posts...I am glad that you are here... :)

Good evening Why me,

Thank you for your positive feedback! It feels good to know that you value what I have to say, so please don't stop..keep it coming...please, don't stop..no really, don't stop...hehehe . I have never feasted at the table of poetry but I do feel a strong pull in that direction so I am so grateful for your recommendations...I can't wait to get started. I've heard poetry mentioned here and there but I've never known where to start or who to start with...so NOW I do and I can't wait! I look forward to more shares with you...thanks again.

[helemon]

I think I know what why me is talking about here... like the difference between people who leave the church because of academic stuff, like history and flaws in scripture and such. And then there's the people who leave the church because it "feels" wrong to them, and they realize it's emotionally destructive.

In general that's probably a legitimate difference... except that I didn't do either one. Mine was a combination of both. I dug deeply into the very doctrine of the church.. not the history or anything, but the gospel itself.. and it felt wrong to me. So where do I fit in? :( I don't wanna be left out (also a danger of putting people in boxes).

I agree. While it was the intellectual inconsistancies, illogical doctrines, and flat out lies and misrepresentations that provided me the most motivation to leave the church, I also disagreed with many doctrines on a moral level (e.g. polygamy, priesthood). I will admit however that during my time in the church I never suffered emotional or physical abuse like many here. Maybe that is why it was the intellectual issues that played a larger role in my leaving the church.

[helemon]

I love my children and if they wanted to be with me, I would NOT turn them away, so why would MY God? Am I greater than GOD? I guess you could say that I fired my last God and hired a new one...


I can relate to this. I never, in my heart , could beleive in the mormon god. He always seemed so arbitrary. I always have had a deep feeling that whoever god is, it is very loving, and completetly accepting. The force of life and good. It draws no lines of distinction in the human family. As it says in the BOM.. " all are alike unto god.."

Free Thinker

I was always told that it was not that God would not want us around him but that we, with a full knowledge of our guilt, would not want to be in his presence. Kind of like how children may run and hide if they know they have done something bad. So that is why God sent Christ, so that we would have a way to remove our sense of guilt and feel like we could bear to be in his presence. Thus hell is not a punishment inflicted by a cruel and vengeful God but a self imposed and self created hell produced from the memories of how we used or misused the gift of life that we had been given.

[free thinker]

Thus hell is not a punishment inflicted by a cruel and vengeful God but a self imposed and self created hell produced from the memories of how we used or misused the gift of life that we had been given


Perhaps then there is some variance in the lines that encompass heaven. Since we all have different ideas of what feeling a good life lived would be.

Also everyone has regrets, and nonone to my knowledge so far, seems to think they have made the best of everything here in this life.

Free Thinker

[helemon]

Perhaps then there is some variance in the lines that encompass heaven. Since we all have different ideas of what feeling a good life lived would be.

Also everyone has regrets, and nonone to my knowledge so far, seems to think they have made the best of everything here in this life.

Free Thinker

I didn't say this was an accurate representation of the next life. I agree people differ in how much guilt they feel about they live their life. I am just offering it as one explanation for how you can have an all loving God and still have some of his spirit children in Hell.

[why me]

Good evening Why me,

Thank you for your positive feedback! It feels good to know that you value what I have to say, so please don't stop..keep it coming...please, don't stop..no really, don't stop...hehehe . I have never feasted at the table of poetry but I do feel a strong pull in that direction so I am so grateful for your recommendations...I can't wait to get started. I've heard poetry mentioned here and there but I've never known where to start or who to start with...so NOW I do and I can't wait! I look forward to more shares with you...thanks again.

Sylvia Plath can be rather depressive but much of her poetry is autobiographical. Sara Teadale has sweet sounding verses but not much 'depth' but a lot of heart and sounds...and Emily Bronte is terrific. I am surprised that you have not read poetry...you seem very in touch with your sense details and you seemto observe life from an inner quality of being...opps I am flattering you again...now don't get a balloon sized head... :eek: We will commune some more in the threads.... :)

[aether]

opps I am flattering you again...now don't get a balloon sized head... :eek: We will commune some more in the threads.... :)

Here we go, again people start flirting with my mother. She's married you know!
(I think it might be just a truth of the universe. Nearly all of my boyfriends ended up having crushes on my mom. *sigh*) :p

[why me]

Here we go, again people start flirting with my mother. She's married you know!
(I think it might be just a truth of the universe. Nearly all of my boyfriends ended up having crushes on my mom. *sigh*) :p


Ahhh...weelll....ummm....I think aether you should start posting on the fair boards for now on...no offense...buuutt...it might be best...but..ahhhh...ohhh... okay stay here...what the heck.....!
;)

[dancinfree]

Sylvia Plath can be rather depressive but much of her poetry is autobiographical. Sara Teadale has sweet sounding verses but not much 'depth' but a lot of heart and sounds...and Emily Bronte is terrific. I am surprised that you have not read poetry...you seem very in touch with your sense details and you seemto observe life from an inner quality of being...opps I am flattering you again...now don't get a balloon sized head... :eek: We will commune some more in the threads.... :)

I think I'll go for Emily Bronte first. Oh and btw, my head is naturally large due to a large amount of pudding so don't worry, I don't think it's humanly possible for my head to get much bigger....but than again... :D

Nothing wrong with a good ole dose of flattering every day, I say!! See you on the threads!!

[dancinfree]

Ahhh...weelll....ummm....I think aether you should start posting on the fair boards for now on...no offense...buuutt...it might be best...but..ahhhh...ohhh... okay stay here...what the heck.....!
;)


Whatever you do Why me...don't listen to her...hehehehe ;)

[why me]

I think I'll go for Emily Bronte first. Oh and btw, my head is naturally large due to a large amount of pudding so don't worry, I don't think it's humanly possible for my head to get much bigger....but than again... :D

Nothing wrong with a good ole dose of flattering every day, I say!! See you on the threads!!

I think that Emily Bronte is a good start. I was a member of the Bronte Society when I was in my twenties. I have always found the life of the Bronte's fascinating, and this includes the brother Branwell. They all had such tragic lives...
I have found that when I have read the lives of writers and poets, my own understanding of my own life took shape. I became aware that people who can use sense details can have a difficult time on this earth. There is so much in life's wind and in life's existence...to can be difficult to manage it all---especially life's tragedies and also its beauties...

[dancinfree]

I was always told that it was not that God would not want us around him but that we, with a full knowledge of our guilt, would not want to be in his presence. Kind of like how children may run and hide if they know they have done something bad. So that is why God sent Christ, so that we would have a way to remove our sense of guilt and feel like we could bear to be in his presence. Thus hell is not a punishment inflicted by a cruel and vengeful God but a self imposed and self created hell produced from the memories of how we used or misused the gift of life that we had been given.

Hello Helemon!

I also have been told that story about how my state of mind basically creates my heaven or hell and it's not God's doing and I wonder if I don't feel guilty even without Jesus, would I still get a first class ticket to the Celestial Kingdon? hmmm...probably not, is my guess.

I was also referring to the whole, day of judgement fiasco. There is no turning back, no second and infinite chances for more. I am basically stuck where I'm put. If I wasn't worthy enough for the celestial kingdom and live with God at that moment, then I'm screwed for eternity. There would be no more chances, no more pleadings to live with God..no matter my state of mind or further states of mind....the door would be closed forever. Nope, nope, God won't allow me further progress...kick and scream all I want...ain't gonna happen baby! WAAAAHHH!!

The whole idea of no growth from one kingdom to the next just growth within the kingdoms always screamed at me with a huge NIGGLY yell. That is how God, IMO, shuts the door on me..momo speaking, not the other way around. I wouldn't EVER disallow my children to be with me, even if it takes a trillion eternities and then some more for them to want to be with me. That's why I fired my momo God! I just thought some more clarity on this matter would be of some use. Thanks a bunch! :)

[dancinfree]

I think that Emily Bronte is a good start. I was a member of the Bronte Society when I was in my twenties. I have always found the life of the Bronte's fascinating, and this includes the brother Branwell. They all had such tragic lives...
I have found that when I have read the lives of writers and poets, my own understanding of my own life took shape. I became aware that people who can use sense details can have a difficult time on this earth. There is so much in life's wind and in life's existence...to can be difficult to manage it all---especially life's tragedies and also its beauties...

I haven't had much exposure to reading poetry and I am somewhat unaware of the writers of the books I read but the movie "The Hours", which was based on Virginia Woolfe was so intriguing to me. It touched something very deep inside of me and I felt connection there. So in a way, I get what you are saying about the difficulty, even to say the base of tragedy, that accompanies the management of life in this world.

Knowing that I am alone and yet, feeling aloneness, are two different worlds for me sometimes. There is a part of me that wants to go to the depths of the darkness where there is no end and yet there also appears for me, the light within, of hope and love and treasures of those other souls that I find in my life. Like here, where all of me can be embraced in this safe haven, expressed in words and felt from my heart.

I think I've gone off the subject...I have a tendency for that. Thanks again for your sharing of yourself..such gifts are precious.

[why me]

I haven't had much exposure to reading poetry and I am somewhat unaware of the writers of the books I read but the movie "The Hours", which was based on Virginia Woolfe was so intriguing to me. It touched something very deep inside of me and I felt connection there. So in a way, I get what you are saying about the difficulty, even to say the base of tragedy, that accompanies the management of life in this world.

Knowing that I am alone and yet, feeling aloneness, are two different worlds for me sometimes. There is a part of me that wants to go to the depths of the darkness where there is no end and yet there also appears for me, the light within, of hope and love and treasures of those other souls that I find in my life. Like here, where all of me can be embraced in this safe haven, expressed in words and felt from my heart.

I think I've gone off the subject...I have a tendency for that. Thanks again for your sharing of yourself..such gifts are precious.

I don't think that you did go off the subject. You spoke from the inner life...your inner life and that is important...perhaps the most important aspect of communication is communicating through inner tunnels which connects the soul to life. Virginia Woolf is a special interest of mine. I even started a thread in this forum called:Virginia Woolf and The Waves. Take a look at my start up post. I supplied a quote by her that I have found interesting. Virginia Woolf led a rich inner life which border on real life and madness. Eventually the madness won. When I started this thread I wanted the emotional and the intellectuals and all the others to speak out. But in truth, I was basically interested in the emotionals...the people who feel life's inner wind with sharpness and with sensitivity. I think that it is difficult to have inner life poetry in church life...the inner wind can be so troublesome in its strength and invisability but this is my own opinion and experience. Something tells me that you also feel this inner wind and at times you cannot seem to comprehend the sensations and feelings that you get from it. But I could be wrong. To feel life- poetry can be problematic but it can also be a great joy... :)

I know this feeling of being alone and aloneness...you have an interesting take on it...maybe I can try to use it as my own. For some people, aloneness and darkness garnishes creativity and beautiful words...as can be found in great literature, but as a life-tool...it is also good to see the light found within other souls along the way. :)

dancinfree! You can read my introduction thread in the threads somewhere. :cool:

[dancinfree]

You spoke from the inner life...your inner life and that is important...perhaps the most important aspect of communication is communicating through inner tunnels which connects the soul to life.


Why me, YOU are truly a poet! I love the chosen words of "inner life" and "inner winds". They describe very well what I do feel at times. While growing up, I shut down my emotional side verbally. I saw it as a weakness due to the fact that my father was such a seemingly strong, powerful force in my life. He never spoke of his feelings, so I adopted that way of being...except for one thing...emotions have a way of expression beyond verbal and I realize now that my passion for dance was my emotional expressions of life. My world revolved around the "dance" and I used my body as the instrument for the creation of the dance. I literally felt that I would disappear if I could not dance and create but as I got older and the responsibilities of adulthood and family became larger, my ability to express myself with the dance became less and less. I see now, at this moment, that I turned to the sanctuary of the verbal and inner world more and more and my inner winds became more vivid. That is why this site is so powerful for me now..I get it!! and you "get" me and I am filled with peace and balance.

Something tells me that you also feel this inner wind and at times you cannot seem to comprehend the sensations and feelings that you get from it. But I could be wrong.

You are not wrong. It seems my whole life surrounds the journey of figuring out what my inner winds are saying to me and how to express all that I feel safely. I know that acceptance of the journey has been a large part of my growth thus far....releasing damning judgement and shame along the way...ahh, the joy!

I know this feeling of being alone and aloneness...you have an interesting take on it...maybe I can try to use it as my own. For some people, aloneness and darkness garnishes creativity and beautiful words

I have many thoughts on this subject and experiences that describe this further but I will wait for another time to do that.

Virginia Woolf is a special interest of mine. I even started a thread in this forum called:Virginia Woolf and The Waves. Take a look at my start up post. I supplied a quote by her that I have found interesting.
dancinfree! You can read my introduction thread in the threads somewhere. :cool:

I look forward to absorbing more posts and exploring new perspectives along the way. What a treat! I'm glad to learn of your Virginia Woolf thread...can't wait..thanks! :p

[why me]

Why me, YOU are truly a poet! I love the chosen words of "inner life" and "inner winds". They describe very well what I do feel at times. While growing up, I shut down my emotional side verbally. I saw it as a weakness due to the fact that my father was such a seemingly strong, powerful force in my life. He never spoke of his feelings, so I adopted that way of being...except for one thing...emotions have a way of expression beyond verbal and I realize now that my passion for dance was my emotional expressions of life. My world revolved around the "dance" and I used my body as the instrument for the creation of the dance. I literally felt that I would disappear if I could not dance and create but as I got older and the responsibilities of adulthood and family became larger, my ability to express myself with the dance became less and less. I see now, at this moment, that I turned to the sanctuary of the verbal and inner world more and more and my inner winds became more vivid. That is why this site is so powerful for me now..I get it!! and you "get" me and I am filled with peace and balance.



You are not wrong. It seems my whole life surrounds the journey of figuring out what my inner winds are saying to me and how to express all that I feel safely. I know that acceptance of the journey has been a large part of my growth thus far....releasing damning judgement and shame along the way...ahh, the joy!



I have many thoughts on this subject and experiences that describe this further but I will wait for another time to do that.



I look forward to absorbing more posts and exploring new perspectives along the way. What a treat! I'm glad to learn of your Virginia Woolf thread...can't wait..thanks! :p


It is nice to find someone who understands the inner life. I remember when I was a young man in Utah. I was there for a brief time in my life. I attended a poetry club. We would read poems. I remember this one young woman who read a sad bittersweet poem that she wrote...She was young and filled her verses with such melancholy...there are many people out there working their way through tunnels, darkness and loneliness. Some never find the light...they just get lost.
I believe that it is difficult to be a 'good' church member when the natual feeling inside the person is melancholy. Difficult to find an honest soulmate who can understand the melancholy...and understand that inner world. Many church members need to smile and show positive faces...no room for a sad inner breeze coming from the east and west, north and south. (It may be there but it cannot be recognized.) :) --a smile because the sun was shining today... Take care in Utah...enjoy the dance and your rich family life.