Letting Go of God [Archive]

noodle

9th June 2005, 07:37 AM

dogzilla

10th June 2005, 01:43 PM

I didn't catch it, but I followed your links and just spent about an hour reading her blogs.

Wow. Lots of stuff to think about in there. She's a pretty smart cookie.

free thinker

11th June 2005, 01:14 AM

Mamajama if you see this coming on again maybe you could alert us. I would really like to see it.

I believe in a god, but I define this presence loosely. I mostly agree with what Spong writes as the closest I can come to what I think, and feel, this god may be.

I do find I gain strength and consolation in brief simple prayer, but I think god is mostly benign. We are very free indeed.

I also think almost all of our charactrization of this being, or force, is wholly inadequate. Simply the human mind trying to comprehend a force that cannot be comprehended.

Most of it is completely obsolete for me now. Also I absolutely understand, and am at peace, with anyone who does not believe any longer, or never did.

Free Thinker

why me

11th June 2005, 08:00 AM

Did anybody catch the "This American Life" (NPR) piece by Julia Sweeney entitled "Letting Go of God?" I was really intrigued. She was a Catholic who had nagging faith questions, so she tackled her questions by joining a bible study group, and she had various discussions with her priest. She starts the monologue with a discussion about Mormon missionaries visiting her (a great story which she discusses in detail). Basically, her faith had been shaken by her brother's cancer and subsequent death, as well as her own bout with cancer. Anyway, she does a beautiful job - sortof a one woman show - describing her transition away from her faith in God. I loved it!

Julia Sweeney was "Pat" as well as other characters on Saturday Night Live.

You can read more on these websites:

http://www.juliasweeney.com/index2.html

http://www.juliasweeney.com/welcome.asp

Letting go of god is an interesting concept. When I observe many people on the street I am sure that most have a very loose relationship with God. He is just there someone but very rarely used in life situations. In this instance it is perhaps easy to let go of god because of loosely knitted bonds. But for the deep believer, the bonds are much stronger and the letting go process can be difficult, especially if you were LDS or some other strict follower of the new testament. Difficult to let go when the belief was so firm. Maybe the former strong believer can begin to see god differently---a god with more love and understanding...a good companion who would understand weakness and true humanist goodness. I am no longer a strong believer in god but I also have not let go of god. If god exists, he could give me a hug or a tender caress...that would be wonderful because of the purity in the movement itself.

noodle

11th June 2005, 03:20 PM

Mamajama if you see this coming on again maybe you could alert us. I would really like to see it.

Free Thinker

This is from Julia Sweeney's website (the second link that I listed above):
http://www.juliasweeney.com/welcome.asp

Jun. 07, 2005
Letting Go Of God, the CD, the Book, the Film

Since I've gotten so many e-mails from people, especially since the This American Life show aired, about my plans for various versions of my show to be completed, I thought I would tell you what's going on for now right here,

1.) The CD. I am now planning to do two versions of the CD, one a live recording (that means like a concert recording with an audience) and one a spoken word recording (that means like it was presented on This American Life), Even though it seems confusing to do both. Even though absolutely everyone is telling me to only do one type of recording. They are just too different. And my biggest goal is to be satisfied creatively. And so, I'm going to do both. BUT, I would say that they will not be available before August. If you sign up for my newsletter, or even just write me an e-mail that you are interested, I will contact you when it's done.

2.) The Book. For now, I'm calling the book, "My Beautiful Loss Of Faith Story" and it will be out next Spring. That's Spring of 2006. This is if I get my act together to finish the book. I have a deal with Holt to do the book and this is my intention.

3.) The Film. I just took this job on the writing staff of Desperate Housewives (see...I don't even need to say that, but I'm just so thrilled and I must brag about it!) and so the film will not be made for at least one year. Probably next spring. Which means even longer for the film to be out there in the public for people to see. When I shot God Said Ha!, it took two years after we shot it to be released. So, a long time.

In the meantime, I will probably perform Letting Go Of God here and there. Maybe at some colleges in the fall. Maybe a one-off at this theater or that. I will post this. It could also be that I don't have time to do this. So, I will send out notices if I do anything dramatic about it.

Thanks for your interest. I am saving all the e-mails of people interested so I can contact you.

dancinfree

12th June 2005, 12:37 PM

Letting go of god is an interesting concept. When I observe many people on the street I am sure that most have a very loose relationship with God. He is just there someone but very rarely used in life situations. In this instance it is perhaps easy to let go of god because of loosely knitted bonds. But for the deep believer, the bonds are much stronger and the letting go process can be difficult, especially if you were LDS or some other strict follower of the new testament. Difficult to let go when the belief was so firm. Maybe the former strong believer can begin to see god differently---a god with more love and understanding...a good companion who would understand weakness and true humanist goodness. I am no longer a strong believer in god but I also have not let go of god. If god exists, he could give me a hug or a tender caress...that would be wonderful because of the purity in the movement itself.

I am a strong believer in a God...I'm just not sure what that looks like anymore. I used to have a firm belief in what my god looked like and acted like but like you, I let go of THAT God and embraced a more loving, accepting, merciful, understanding God. I became more loving and accepting because of that. I look at others and instead of wanting to control them or make them look a certain way for me, I find myself seeing them with compassionate eyes...loving eyes..understanding eyes and I truly believe my God does the same. Thank you for your words...they ring a truth for me

free thinker

12th June 2005, 11:42 PM

I am a strong believer in a God...I'm just not sure what that looks like anymore. I used to have a firm belief in what my god looked like and acted like but like you, I let go of THAT God and embraced a more loving, accepting, merciful, understanding God. I became more loving and accepting because of that. I look at others and instead of wanting to control them or make them look a certain way for me, I find myself seeing them with compassionate eyes...loving eyes..understanding eyes and I truly believe my God does the same. Thank you for your words...they ring a truth for me
__________________
Dancinfree

I am going to define god as I experience he/she/it, from now on. I dont want to live under the suppositions of others. I dont care who they are! Pope, Apostle, President, Deacon, Reverend, Rabbi etc, etc..

If god exsits, and I think it does, ( see above), this being is perfectly capable of revealing it's power and presence to me,without a religious backdrop.

Free Thinker

dancinfree

13th June 2005, 03:56 PM

I am going to define god as I experience he/she/it, from now on. I dont want to live under the suppositions of others. I dont care who they are! Pope, Apostle, President, Deacon, Reverend, Rabbit etc, etc..

If god exsits, and I think it does, ( see above), this being is perfectly capable of revealing it's power and presence to me,without a religious backdrop.

Free Thinker

Very well said free thinker...its nice to feel understood on this... seems we are on the same page...ahh, the bliss of truly feeling a loving presence from within and without...for me it is all encompassing and now instead of wasting time defining it for me, I just "am" with it.

mushbelly

14th June 2005, 10:27 PM

You can go to

www.thisamericanlife.org

and listen to it. Go under 2005 and it's the first one there (right now anyway)

I just listened to it. Very interesting.

Michelle

peter_mary

15th June 2005, 09:22 AM

I let go of God years ago, and frankly, I don't miss him much. Ironically, I've never been more at peace with my place in the universe than I am now.

Here's a little side-track for ya, and part of the reason why I don't miss God much. I was at my son's graduation last week, and around here, we still do the Baccalaurete (sorry dogzilla, but I have NO clue how to spell that), which is a religious component to graduation (my son's choir was singing...I had to be there!). Three young men, who were VERY talented, wrote a song and performed it during the program, and while I really enjoyed them and their performance, I gasped when they introduced the theme of their song, gleaned from their upbringing as born again christians. They claimed that the purpose of our existence...read that carefully, the PURPOSE of our existence...is to worship God.

I fell out of my chair. (It was so embarassing :p )

I leaned over to my wife and asked, "Who is this narcisistic ego-maniac of a God?" Why is he so insecure that he would create us for the purpose of worshiping him? I have to say...it was the most irrational religious argument I've heard since uncovering the polygamy argument several years ago.

I love my planet. I love the creatures, both great and small, with whom I share this tiny little orb. But I am completely at peace with the belief that the universe is fully capable of unfolding in this direction, including you and me and Adolph Hitler and Billy Graham and clown fish and Tyranosaurs and oak trees and hair lice, without the assistance of God or Satan, either one. When I let go of all of that, I really came to appreciate, among other things, myself. Maybe I'm the narcisistic ego-maniac...

Peter_Mary

why me

15th June 2005, 12:13 PM

I am a strong believer in a God...I'm just not sure what that looks like anymore. I used to have a firm belief in what my god looked like and acted like but like you, I let go of THAT God and embraced a more loving, accepting, merciful, understanding God. I became more loving and accepting because of that. I look at others and instead of wanting to control them or make them look a certain way for me, I find myself seeing them with compassionate eyes...loving eyes..understanding eyes and I truly believe my God does the same. Thank you for your words...they ring a truth for me

I want to see God the way you do and if I have a firm belief in God I would want to see him that way. As I have said, I have not let go of god but I haven't felt his love for a long time. I exist more or less alone with my mind as my companion. And my mind can be a bad comrade to my heart and soul. I believe that you are grateful and thankful for your belief system, at least I hope you are. It must be comforting to have such a god in your life... :)

why me

15th June 2005, 12:21 PM

You can go to

www.thisamericanlife.org

and listen to it. Go under 2005 and it's the first one there (right now anyway)

I just listened to it. Very interesting.

Michelle

I hope that things are going well for you now. I remember you from past posts. I hope that you will communicate more often or when you feel like communicating your thoughts...you seem like a kind and sensitive person...take care... :)

flotsam

15th June 2005, 02:41 PM

I've been getting kind of schizophrenic about god these days.

Last Sunday I realized that I was much happier conceiving of god along the lines of the Tao. More a flow than a person. While I thought of god as a person, I did the Santa Claus in the sky thing. I had wants and tried to get god on my side. Either that, or I was feeling guilty because the Church taught that god had his own will, and that I should be following it.

For some reason it just irks the heck out of me to think that there's this big biped who has a lot of power who wants me to do his will. I don't care if he's smart and omniscient. Shouldn't we be conversing instead of ordering each other around? It sounds like an unhealthy relationship to me.

But then, under the tutelage of Lao-Tzu, Chuang-Tzu, Stephen Mitchell, and a kick in the pants from Peter_Mary, I started to see what it is like to see god as the universe, or a river, or some other metaphor like that. With god being that way, suddenly I'm not trying to assert my will all the time. I'm not feeling like I'm going to hurt some big person's feelings if I don't obey. Instead, I try to understand what's going on around me, and just enjoy what I see. I find that things which were once hard, are now simple. And of course, the simple things have become complex.

It's kind of like swimming. My boy and I went swimming three times a week last semester. And as things got along, I started realizing that there was a way I could relate with the water so that it held me up. I didn't have to expend all kinds of energy kicking my legs and thrashing with my arms to get anywhere. In fact, the more I fought, the more I tensed up and insisted on getting somewhere quickly, the less the water cooperated. But when I layed myself out and tried to move like the the water, suddenly the whole relationship became harmonious. I never ran out of breath, the water held me up, and I could swim more quickly.

In a way, it was like - you know you want to hear it - sex. When you force it, it's nowhere near as fun and transcendant as when you let it flow in its own way. I felt like I needed to treat the water as a lover, and move with it as it moved with me.

Don't get any kinky ideas there, folks. Even though I know dogzilla wouldn't have any problems with me having sex with a swimming pool. :D

However, this is the schizophrenic part, I often still pray as though god is a person to be talked to. Partly because of my family. They're used to it. But also because I'm starting to notice that using the personified god as a conceit gives a certain structure and beauty to the prayer. It gives me a different way of conceiving of my relationship to larger things. And the idea of someone out there is nice.

I recently finished reading Paul Swenson's book of poems "Iced at the Ward, Burned at the Stake," where he spends a lot of time thinking about god in the feminine sense. And I really liked the possibilities that metaphor opened up.

So essentially, I think I'm reveling in the openness to let a lot of different metaphors guide my thinking about my relationship to the universe. Maybe I'm turning into a polytheist.

peter_mary

15th June 2005, 03:08 PM

Last Sunday I realized that I was much happier conceiving of god along the lines of the Tao. More a flow than a person.

But then, under the tutelage of Lao-Tzu, Chuang-Tzu, Stephen Mitchell, and a kick in the pants from Peter_Mary, I started to see what it is like to see god as the universe, or a river, or some other metaphor like that. With god being that way, suddenly I'm not trying to assert my will all the time. I'm not feeling like I'm going to hurt some big person's feelings if I don't obey. Instead, I try to understand what's going on around me, and just enjoy what I see. I find that things which were once hard, are now simple. And of course, the simple things have become complex.

You have had your lunch, grasshopper. Now clean your rice bowl.

Peter_Mary

noodle

15th June 2005, 03:09 PM

You can go to

www.thisamericanlife.org

and listen to it. Go under 2005 and it's the first one there (right now anyway)

I just listened to it. Very interesting.

Michelle

Thanks Michelle for the link. I really was sorry that my family hadn't heard it, so now I can play it for them. I downloaded it last night (along with Real Player), and started listening to part of it. I'll listen to the rest again when I'm not distracted. Do you know if there is a way to skip right to Julia Sweeney's part?

mamajama

dancinfree

15th June 2005, 03:50 PM

I want to see God the way you do and if I have a firm belief in God I would want to see him that way. As I have said, I have not let go of god but I haven't felt his love for a long time. I exist more or less alone with my mind as my companion. And my mind can be a bad comrade to my heart and soul. I believe that you are grateful and thankful for your belief system, at least I hope you are. It must be comforting to have such a god in your life... :)

why me,

How I was able to believe in this type of god is when I decided to give up believing in the authority of God to anything outside of me...I had previously given that power and authority to the "church" and also to any authority figure that I seemed to idolize or hold respect for..like, they "knew more" then me when it came to my spirituality..they were "better" then me and were more spiritual, so I needed to look to them for answers instead of relying on my own spirit, my own "knowing".

When I finally decided to trust my own self and my own beliefs for what worked for me, then peace did I find and treasures divine opened to me from within. A sense of knowing myself and being okay with me...accepting all the parts of myself and not allowing my self righteous judgement voice to dictate how I feel or what I believe. I started questioning myself on why I chose to let this judgement voice dictate instead of a more loving part of me dictate? I guess, sometime long ago, I decided and believed that I deserved the results of a judgemental voice, being pain and loss. Finally, I decided that I deserved more then that..I truly deserved love and understanding..that there wasn't anything "wrong" or "unworthy" about me, only that I am learning and growing as I go along in life. That was a turning point in my life. It was as instant as a choice.

I now choose to allow my accepting, loving, non-judgemental voice to dictate my path and it has resulted in more joy at times then I can express. I call this voice, my path in God, for it is here where I feel divinity, unconditional love and peace.

I honor your path and hope that you too may find your answers as you find love and peace.

wow..it's great NOT talking politics with you for a change. It's all good!!

mushbelly

15th June 2005, 06:26 PM

mushbelly

15th June 2005, 06:27 PM

Thanks Michelle for the link. I really was sorry that my family hadn't heard it, so now I can play it for them. I downloaded it last night (along with Real Player), and started listening to part of it. I'll listen to the rest again when I'm not distracted. Do you know if there is a way to skip right to Julia Sweeney's part?

mamajama

oops - I meant to direct that last post to you mamajama...not peter-mary.

Mushbelly

noodle

15th June 2005, 08:56 PM

oops - I meant to direct that last post to you mamajama...not peter-mary.

Mushbelly

That's OK...thanks for the info! :D

mamajama

noodle

15th June 2005, 09:07 PM

why me

16th June 2005, 04:49 AM

Why me - thanks for the kind words. I still come here and read often but don't post much. I am still working through many things and really have no idea what direction I am headed right now.

Peter-Mary -
You can fast-forward on your real-player just like on a VCR. Julia Sweeney's piece is the last act...probably the last 15 minutes or so. I'm glad you found it. This American Life is one of my favorite radio programs and I listen to them off this site every week.

Mushbelly

I can understand your feelings of not knowing the direction headed. Of course this has many understandings and interpretations and I don't know your details. This site has not changed my basic attitudes or religious beliefs toward the church but it has helped me to communicate with good people who don't force their way of thinking on me. And I know from this site that there are people who have lived life and experienced some of my own experiences. We just share our beliefs and attitudes toward life and this can be very valuable at least for me. In truth if this site was to be about leading people out of the church I probably wouldn't be here. I hope that you find your life-compass...have you tried looking your pocket... :) But I guess...I am still looking for my own compass and I know that it is not in my pocket.. :) But it is somewhere close to me.