mormon statistics

[hitchiker]

The page seems to have gone quiet a bit lately but perhaps people are on holiday in U S A , I have been reading an interesting statistics page for L D S members called WWW . cumorah , it lists missionary work for 245 countrys in the world so you can get a fairly interesting view on the world of mormon growth .
on another topic , i visited church today and witnessed testimony meeting , i realized after 1.5 hours of suffering i had seen nothing but emotional hype , pre concieved and learned articles from children and total mish mash , i had to wonder at the end what it was about this meeting that was supposed to save anybody , however the room was packed and i can only wonder how well the church would grow if it was to have anybody speak who was actually intelligent and had anything real to say ,
some questions i have to ask ?

can any organisation that has a one man autocratic leadership truly bless its people ?

how does mormon leadership compare with democratic leadership ?

As mormonisms exspected goal is to rule the earth , what kind of world do you think it would be ?

if the book of mormon is not a reality as far as history is concerned , but is very faith promoting in theology , why would it be wrong to believe in it .

is it better to have a belief with falsehoods in it , than no belief at all ,?

does leaving mormonism mean an end to trying to live a moral law ?

why do so many people that leave seem to go off the scale with there new found freedom ?

i am not exspecting anybody to answer all of these , but it would be nice to get a few answers here and there

[tjohnson]

if the book of mormon is not a reality as far as history is concerned , but is very faith promoting in theology , why would it be wrong to believe in it .

is it better to have a belief with falsehoods in it , than no belief at all ,?

does leaving mormonism mean an end to trying to live a moral law ?

why do so many people that leave seem to go off the scale with there new found freedom ?

i am not exspecting anybody to answer all of these , but it would be nice to get a few answers here and there

Many of these exact questions have been answered in this forum over the past few months. You may want to do some searching thru the threads to find more detailed and other opinions...

The BoM may be faith promoting to some people. The question would be faith promoting to what? Faith that men in the church have the priesthood and can heal with the laying on of hands? Faith that there will be a 2nd coming? Faith that the church is the only true church on this Earth? Faith in what?

The church has always taught that Jesus was the foundation of the church. However, even if you say that's the case, if all the walls, roof, and floor have holes and are crooked, is that really some place you want to live?

I believe a "moral law" is decided by the person, not the religious group they belong to. Even within the church, there are people that do not obey the "moral law", yet they are fine with it. Each person decides what they believe on their own.

I think once you are free from the bounds of the Church, you want to explore and discover what the "real" world is all about. Many people I know have explored to the very limits and then gradually made their way back to a more reasonable lifestyle. When a prisoner is set free, they don't usually hang around the jail yard. :D

[Born Free]

<snip>

some questions i have to ask ?

can any organisation that has a one man autocratic leadership truly bless its people ?

how does mormon leadership compare with democratic leadership ?

As mormonisms exspected goal is to rule the earth , what kind of world do you think it would be ?

if the book of mormon is not a reality as far as history is concerned , but is very faith promoting in theology , why would it be wrong to believe in it .

is it better to have a belief with falsehoods in it , than no belief at all ,?

does leaving mormonism mean an end to trying to live a moral law ?

why do so many people that leave seem to go off the scale with there new found freedom ?

i am not expecting anybody to answer all of these , but it would be nice to get a few answers here and there
hitchiker

I agree that many of these questions have been answered elsewhere, and in greater depth than you will probably get when people repeat themselves. I recommend going back over the threads, but here is a quicky response:

Question1: Can any organisation that has a one man autocratic leadership truly bless its people ?

Autocratic leadership is neither good nor bad, just limited in being suited to people who want to be sheep, to avoid personal responsibility, which is human development up to a certain stage. So people of sheep-like mentality will continue to be attracted to this type of 'strong leadership'. :Puking

Questions 2: How does mormon leadership compare with democratic leadership?

Answer: It compares badly, IF you want be be an active and thinking member of your community and don't believe that geriactrics have all the answers to the challenges we face. Particularly when those leaders refuse to be accountable, use evasive double-talk when it suits, and actively condone/encourage the rewriting of history.

Questions 3: As mormonisms expected goal is to rule the earth, what kind of world do you think it would be ?

Answer: In short - sheeplike. On big kindergarten, run by power-freaks.

Question 4: If the book of mormon is not a reality as far as history is concerned, but is very faith promoting in theology, why would it be wrong to believe in it .

Answer: If you define 'faith-promoting' with clarity, then compare that against self-responsible adult behaviour, then I believe you will have the answer. How can a book that purports to be fact, then found to be and denied as fiction, ever be useful in promoting responsible, ethical human behaviour. If by 'faith-promitng' you mean obedient, then that is another question.

Question 5: Is it better to have a belief with falsehoods in it, than no belief at all?

Answer: Tweedle dumb, tweedle dee! :duh That's a bit of a nothing choice! How about your add another option - a post-Mormon value and belief system. The whole Stages model is but one example of threads on this site to flesh that out. Your question is an example of the dichotomous thinking Mormonism encourages. There are ample belief systems beyond Mormonism, and most of them a lot easier to maintain and internally coherent, because they are not founded in disassociative thinking.

Question 6: Does leaving mormonism mean an end to trying to live a moral law ?

Answer: Your queston implies that Mormonism has some monopoly on morality. Do you really believe that for one moment? Again, that is what Mormonism would encourage people to think; that outside its confines there is a moral vacume. Sorry, but personally I think there is more, not less, morality outside.

Mormonism encourages people to wear their morality like a coat (externally), where as Post-Mormon morality encourages internalised, personal morality. While people have a borrowed morality like that, if they leave they do risk their lives becoming chaotic, not because Mormonism has supreme value, but that borrowed morality can never be authentic, and therefore is unsustainable.

Question 7: Why do so many people that leave seem to go off the scale with there new found freedom ?

Answer: I laid teh foundation to this above. Go to your video store and rent out the DVD - Devils Playground, a documentry about Amish kids and the process of them being thrust into 'the outside world' as teenagers. Most make a complete mess of their experience, and surprise, surprise, go running back to the bosum of the Amish.

Now you could see this as proof of how evil and unpalatable the non-Amish world is, OR ............ .......

Or you could see it as ample proof that the way the Amish raise their kids, sets them up to fail and be scared s#itless in the real world and run back as frightened controllable children.

Personally I believe it is the latter. See which kids make the break. It is the smarter ones, who have the intelligence to see the 'game' and make an intelligent break, and get the support they need until they are up to speed on how the outside world works.

Mormonism is not as extreme, but the process is the same, IMHO.

I would repeat the encouragement to go and read the many excellent threads on these issues, particularly back several months ago. Try using the 'Rate this Thread'/thread-rating sort. That will bring all the highest rated threads forward, so might make your task easier. Not a lot of people rate threads, but I do, as I find it makes relocating the ones I really liked & valued much easier.

Read the various replies in the Stages threads. Many of those who answered have interesting stories to tell, and in most cases their stories inform the process of moving to a stage of thinking beyond the questions you ask. They share their concerns, and that universally theu found the fears you discuss to be ill-founded, and indeed that what they found was rich beyond expectation.

Daryl

[free thinker]

You are an intelligent and introspective person. You have the answers I think. IMHO what you need is the confidence to accept that you know what you know.

I still lay awake sometimes dumbfounded at all the past years as I realize how transparently fraudulent the mormon church is. Why did I allow it so much sway in my life? I am sure many of us face this question, and we each have different answers.

I would urge you to take the advice of Born Free. Read some post's. Maybe post on the stages thread. Maybe as you write the answers will shake from the words you write.

Lastly. And I speak for myself here!!! If mormonism is where you find the truth, go there. Live the life. Throw yourself into it and give it your all you've got. This might be your path. That's fine my friend! It is absolutlely fine!!

For me!!! I am out and down the road!! Way down the road unless by some strange twist of history the church elders get down to answering some serious questions.

I wont be holding my breath!!

free thinker

[searle paul]

is it better to have a belief with falsehoods in it , than no belief at all ,?
just because you dont believe in the mormon church doesnt mean you dont have beliefs.
does leaving mormonism mean an end to trying to live a moral law ?
no

[hitchiker]

You are an intelligent and introspective person. You have the answers I think. IMHO what you need is the confidence to accept that you know what you know.

I still lay awake sometimes dumbfounded at all the past years as I realize how transparently fraudulent the mormon church is. Why did I allow it so much sway in my life? I am sure many of us face this question, and we each have different answers.

I would urge you to take the advice of Born Free. Read some post's. Maybe post on the stages thread. Maybe as you write the answers will shake from the words you write.

Lastly. And I speak for myself here!!! If mormonism is where you find the truth, go there. Live the life. Throw yourself into it and give it your all you've got. This might be your path. That's fine my friend! It is absolutlely fine!!

For me!!! I am out and down the road!! Way down the road unless by some strange twist of history the church elders get down to answering some serious questions.

I wont be holding my breath!!

free thinkerThanx to all those who have replied , i found a lot of truth in the answers , i have been reading every thread for several months , but yes some of the questions are repeats , however , the L D S church uses the same method for converting its members , repeat repeat repeat , afirm afirm afirm . to break the mindset we have to do the same in opposite mode . for 15 years i had this problem , i knew the church was based on false history , but i could not leave or be free from it , because i had been nutured in a mindset which was a complete security for me . however i was also being sychologicaly abused . when i say i could not leave , i mean that physicaly , i could not turn and walk away , i was trapped , as soon as i tried i would curl up in a ball of anxiety , my mind would be crushed with feelings of insecurity and guilt , it was if i could not breathe , this continued for 15 years , two things happened to change all this , i finaly had the courage to tell my cousin, she left the church two years earlier , that i was going to give up moism and i no longer believed it was true , secondly i began to write my feelings on this web site .
I am a lot happier now , i can see the light at the end of the tunnel , if i go to church now its to be a companion for my wife , i hate to see her suffer , but i will not go to any classes as i get to antagonistic , listening to the service on sunday, i had to ask , how did i go on believing all this for so long , why was i so afraid to stand up for myself and make a decision , i feel sad that i wasted so many years , because i was really unhappy for much of it . luckily for me my five children are happy as that i am a free thinker , when i see my freinds throwing there kids out to the dogs because of problems with sex or drugs , i am saying to my children stay home , respect your home you can always live here , no matter what , as long as you do not abuse us , we respect your right to live your life as seem fit , we have a big house , a big family , one grandma , two parents , one daughter and son in law with two grand children , two teenage adolecents with no partners , one teenage adolecent living with us with partner , even more surprising , within that group are three different racial groups , Maori , Samoan and English , its a peacefull home most of the time . I am glad for being open minded , perhaps the proof of the pudding is , there all still with us , except one son who has obtained his own home with partner and two children , well i am going on to much , mormon rules , my home is my castle , break the rules , get out , our rules , whatever problems you have in life , this is always your home , we will never cast you out , just respect our home and educate yourself to what is right , i wonder which is nearer to christs ideal , i am happy and free ,