A question I have

[Matt]

I found a site which is causing me to do some thinking.
I have been a member of the church of about 20 years, and have had some concerns.

The site I located is at:

http://www.cesnur.org/2001/archive/mi_mormons.htm

I have noticed some events in the Church which made me uncomfortable, and reading through several of the posts on this site a few days ago caused me to think even more.

I would like to know if it is possible that here has been some form of Satanic Child Abuse going on within the frame work of the LDS Church.

I had heard rumors of the "infiltration" in high levels of the Church for sometime of corruption, but not child abuse.

Just wondered what others thought about this.

[Jeff_Ricks]

I found a site which is causing me to do some thinking.
I have been a member of the church of about 20 years, and have had some concerns.

The site I located is at:

http://www.cesnur.org/2001/archive/mi_mormons.htm

I have noticed some events in the Church which made me uncomfortable, and reading through several of the posts on this site a few days ago caused me to think even more.

I would like to know if it is possible that here has been some form of Satanic Child Abuse going on within the frame work of the LDS Church.

I had heard rumors of the "infiltration" in high levels of the Church for sometime of corruption, but not child abuse.

Just wondered what others thought about this.

I've heard similar rumors over the years but don't know of any way that I can validate them. Until they are validated beyond reasonable doubt I personally think it would be unwise to put much stock in them.

The church has plenty of other issues to answer for that have been validated as fact, well beyond any reasonable doubt (such as widespread child sex abuse as has been discussed here). You should consider those issues too if you are not doing so already.

Jeff

[peter_mary]

I would like to know if it is possible that here has been some form of Satanic Child Abuse going on within the frame work of the LDS Church.

I had heard rumors of the "infiltration" in high levels of the Church for sometime of corruption, but not child abuse.

Just wondered what others thought about this.

I'm not an expert on these kinds of things, but I'm also slow to jump on anti-Mormon conspiracy theories. So what I'm saying here is simply one guy's opinion and nothing more.

This is the kind of idea that makes good urban legends. It is psychologically appealing to people who have an axe to grind with the Church, because it's just the kind of "proof" they need to justify their hatred. But really, what would the Church gain by allowing such infiltration to occur? They certainly don't need the kind of press that would undoubtedly surface, and Satanism brings nothing to the table in terms of financial gain.

Is it possible that there are Mormons who engage in Satanism? Yes. I am aware of clients that have sought counseling at our clinic that have been the victims of ritualistic abuse, and it occurred in rural Idaho communities that are predominantly LDS. It is my recollection that the abusers were "jack" Mormons, not practicing Mormons (although for confidentiality reasons, I never get to know anything more than vague generalities, so I could be wrong). Regardless, it is true that there are sick people who do sick things in LDS communities. But that does not mean that those sick things are in any way condoned or secretely supported by the Church.

For the record, I've also read on the internet a story by a woman who swears she observed Gordon B. Hinckley "shape-shift" to his "true alien-reptilian form," but I don't believe that one, either!

The Church has many faults, and there are a goodly number of foolish people who participate in all levels of the Church, but I would be very surprised if there was an element of Satanism. It just doesn't make sense from a business perspective, and since that's what the Church really is...

But like I said, I'm only speculating here, and there may be people who have experience in this area where I don't.

Paul

[wescape]

Well, I don't know about Satanism but Brigham Young did preach blood atonement which is just as disturbing...

[silverfox]

I think the case you are referencing is an extreme one. I remember the rumors surrounding it at the time. I believe many anti-Mormon organizations twist, exaggerate, etc many true cases. My mother was antiMormon and I have seen and heard a lot of the allegations and for the most part I have never been able to validate that some of these extreme cases ever actually happened.

However, yes, there are bishops and stake presidents and other members in leadership positions that have taken advantage of the conditioning and trust and have victimized many children. Parents most likely won't believe a child's allegations and leaders know that which makes children prime targets.

My old boss was a bishop for many years. He recently was accused by a young man of about 25 years old of sexually abusing him when he was about 13/14. He came forward, an investigation ensued, more boys came forward. He left behind a string of many victims, mostly all are older now and willing to come forward. I am not sure if he has gone to trial yet but it was a shock for many people. I always wondered why he "created" a lot of unnecessary jobs for return misshies, or young boys right out of high school.

But I have never been able to validate extreme cases like your link refers to.

[silverfox]

I found a site which is causing me to do some thinking.
I have been a member of the church of about 20 years, and have had some concerns.

The site I located is at:

http://www.cesnur.org/2001/archive/mi_mormons.htm

I have noticed some events in the Church which made me uncomfortable, and reading through several of the posts on this site a few days ago caused me to think even more.

I would like to know if it is possible that here has been some form of Satanic Child Abuse going on within the frame work of the LDS Church.

I had heard rumors of the "infiltration" in high levels of the Church for sometime of corruption, but not child abuse.

Just wondered what others thought about this.

You mentioned corruption. In my opinion, the church has become just another huge corporation with the same issues as a big corporation. What kind of rumors have you heard? Some one may be able to discount or validate them here.

[Unregistered]

I'm not an expert on these kinds of things, but I'm also slow to jump on anti-Mormon conspiracy theories. So what I'm saying here is simply one guy's opinion and nothing more.

This is the kind of idea that makes good urban legends. It is psychologically appealing to people who have an axe to grind with the Church, because it's just the kind of "proof" they need to justify their hatred. But really, what would the Church gain by allowing such infiltration to occur? They certainly don't need the kind of press that would undoubtedly surface, and Satanism brings nothing to the table in terms of financial gain.

Is it possible that there are Mormons who engage in Satanism? Yes. I am aware of clients that have sought counseling at our clinic that have been the victims of ritualistic abuse, and it occurred in rural Idaho communities that are predominantly LDS. It is my recollection that the abusers were "jack" Mormons, not practicing Mormons (although for confidentiality reasons, I never get to know anything more than vague generalities, so I could be wrong). Regardless, it is true that there are sick people who do sick things in LDS communities. But that does not mean that those sick things are in any way condoned or secretely supported by the Church.

For the record, I've also read on the internet a story by a woman who swears she observed Gordon B. Hinckley "shape-shift" to his "true alien-reptilian form," but I don't believe that one, either!

The Church has many faults, and there are a goodly number of foolish people who participate in all levels of the Church, but I would be very surprised if there was an element of Satanism. It just doesn't make sense from a business perspective, and since that's what the Church really is...

But like I said, I'm only speculating here, and there may be people who have experience in this area where I don't.

Paul


HEy Paul,
Nice Misdirect,
Now that you have Matt all feeling safe and sure that the only real abusers are rural Idaho Jack-Mormons..."as you recall".....(good way to start an urban legend).....would you like to jump over to the thread started by Lisa (about abuse in the church).....where you say....these Bishops think they have "magic mantle" and "power of God" and then go on to say how the ones who abuse "never will change" and weren't the GA's of this cult once good little Bishops and SP's themselves????????
Just wondering????

[Unregistered]

HEy Paul,
Nice Misdirect,
Now that you have Matt all feeling safe and sure that the only real abusers are rural Idaho Jack-Mormons..."as you recall".....(good way to start an urban legend).....would you like to jump over to the thread started by Lisa (about abuse in the church).....where you say....these Bishops think they have "magic mantle" and "power of God" and then go on to say how the ones who abuse "never will change" and weren't the GA's of this cult once good little Bishops and SP's themselves????????
Just wondering????

Paul wrote at the beginning that he isn't "an expert in these things" and at the end concluded that he was only speculating and others may have more experience than he regarding the matter.

[free thinker]

I would not put much confidence in such stories. The real evil of any large dogmatic-authoritarian organization is in the group mentality. The idea that so many people cannot be wrong. Or in the covering up of abuse. This in effect silences those who would like to speak up , but fear to, because they do not want to be the only ones. Not much different than the flood gates that opened in the recent pedophilia cases within the catholic church. In my humble opinion this is where evil would reside.

Simon Southerton estimates that the LDS Church is a 6 billion dollar a year business. Big bucks generally makes for some kind of corruption. Ever seen 6 billion in figures like this $6,000,000,000.00 . Dats a whole lotta mula eh??

Free Thinker

[silverfox]

Simon Southerton estimates that the LDS Church is a 6 billion dollar a year business. Big bucks generally makes for some kind of corruption. Ever seen 6 billion in figures like this $6,000,000,000.00 . Dats a whole lotta mula eh??

Free Thinker

And just like a corp "you're fired" if you don't comply. In other words ex'ed or shunned, whatever it may be. Or "punished" by not receiving what they think are "awards" (temple recommend, sacrament) You WILL do what you are told if you want to be a part of the corp. Dress code, no tattoos, colored hair, etc. Just like a multi billion dollar corp.

[dogzilla]

I couldn't get to your link from work. It came up as blocked because it's "Non traditional religions, occult and folklore."

What does that tell you?