Current quote on lds.org

[helemon]

"We whose conversion is sufficient must reach out to those who wander. As we do, we will find great joy in gathering the Lord’s sheep. "
—Elder Robert D. Hales
Ensign, May 1997, 82

Hmmm, does this mean there has recently been an increase in wandering??? :duh :D

[Born Free]

"We whose conversion is sufficient must reach out to those who wander. As we do, we will find great joy in gathering the Lord’s sheep. "
—Elder Robert D. Hales
Ensign, May 1997, 82

Hmmm, does this mean there has recently been an increase in wandering??? :duh :D

"Let them come to gather those of us who have wandered, and we shall see how sufficient is their conversion!"

Daryl
Post-Mormon.org
July 16, 2005

[free thinker]

"Let them come to gather those of us who have wandered, and we shall see how sufficient is their conversion!"

With the exception of infiltrator, I havn't seen anyone come around here to post-mo to help get us back on the track!! We are all here in one place. Seems it would be an efficient way to catch a bunch of wanderers in one place!! :cool:

They wont come here because they are scared as hell to come here!!

This is one reason I admire flotsam! He is in the church and can still slug it out here at post-mo. Big nads flotsam!!

free thinker

[why me]

"Let them come to gather those of us who have wandered, and we shall see how sufficient is their conversion!"

With the exception of infiltrator, I havn't seen anyone come around here to post-mo to help get us back on the track!! We are all here in one place. Seems it would be an efficient way to catch a bunch of wanderers in one place!! :cool:

They wont come here because they are scared as hell to come here!!

This is one reason I admire flotsam! He is in the church and can still slug it out here at post-mo. Big nads flotsam!!

free thinker
Ummm...Free Thinker has thrown down the gauntlet to all mo's who are lurching on our site. This could mean war now. Should we be prepared for a confrontation? Of course there are some who are scared to view such a site as this. But there are others who are not afraid to joust with a post-mo. Look at helemon at FAIR. We have had some rather peaceful times here without any confrontations. We have been rather lucky. :)

[helemon]

Ummm...Free Thinker has thrown down the gauntlet to all mo's who are lurching on our site. This could mean war now. Should we be prepared for a confrontation? Of course there are some who are scared to view such a site as this. But there are others who are not afraid to joust with a post-mo. Look at helemon at FAIR. We have had some rather peaceful times here without any confrontations. We have been rather lucky. :)

The proof of who is running scared is demonstrated by how FAIR has recently purged many of its most vocal critics. However I am still puzzled by the ones the continue to allow. Rollo Tomosi and Zeitgeist are still posting and there are others still critiqueing the apologists. I can't for the life of me figure out what determines who they let post and who they don't. My only guess is that the ones they continue to let post are well known scholars in the area who they know they can't hide from? Oh well it is good to see whenever I go over there that while the critiques of the apologists have dwindled dramatically there are still some fighting the good fight. :D

[Born Free]

Ummm...Free Thinker has thrown down the gauntlet to all mo's who are lurching on our site. This could mean war now. Should we be prepared for a confrontation? Of course there are some who are scared to view such a site as this. But there are others who are not afraid to joust with a post-mo. Look at helemon at FAIR. We have had some rather peaceful times here without any confrontations. We have been rather lucky. :)
Why Me,

I was not proposing confrontation (bashing), but rather my interest to see those 'faithful" come out of their protected, 'I'm OK, You're not' perspective, filtered little 'faith-promoting' world, and confront what we regard as the unfiltered truth of Mormon history, laundering, inconsistency, and unhealthy psychology.

'Saving' sounds so honourable, so simple, so uncomplicated. :) Engaging with the full extent of data that discredits Mormonism, may be just a tad more messy. Just read the Stages threads for starters! :eek:

Daryl

BTW: I know lurking. What does lurching look like. Is that the term to describe people who who are hovering on the brink? :eek:

[Born Free]

"We whose conversion is sufficient must reach out to those who wander. As we do, we will find great joy in gathering the Lord’s sheep. "
—Elder Robert D. Hales
Ensign, May 1997, 82

Hmmm, does this mean there has recently been an increase in wandering??? :duh :D

The more I read this quote, the more it strikes me as pompous, arrogant tripe.

"We whose conversion is sufficient must reach out to those who wander...."

How delightfully superiour. How well trained in the Mo paradigm. :slap:

So what do 'we' do with those whose conversion is insufficient? Keep them on a milk diet and wrapped in cotton wool for Eternity?

These statements appear so magnanimous if they are scanned with a little Mormon brain. Expose them to one moments scrutiny and they are self-evidently arrogant, superiour, unChristian, and divisive.

Pompous prig! :eek:

Daryl

[flotsam]

This is one reason I admire flotsam! He is in the church and can still slug it out here at post-mo. Big nads flotsam!!

free thinker

Thanks, I'll let my wife know. :D

[why me]

Why Me,

I was not proposing confrontation (bashing), but rather my interest to see those 'faithful" come out of their protected, 'I'm OK, You're not' perspective, filtered little 'faith-promoting' world, and confront what we regard as the unfiltered truth of Mormon history, laundering, inconsistency, and unhealthy psychology.

'Saving' sounds so honourable, so simple, so uncomplicated. Engaging with the full extent of data that discredits Mormonism, may be just a tad more messy. Just read the Stages threads for starters! :eek:

Daryl

BTW: I know lurking. What does lurching look like. Is that the term to describe people who who are hovering on the brink? :eek:
In respect to lurching I suppose that I was thinking of the Adams Family. Isn't that where the character Lurch had his part? Actually, it would be difficult to engage anyone when two people have two stances that are at opposite ends of thought. But it would spice some things up a bit and give silverfox and free thinker a huge headache trying to moderate this forum. But on the other hand isn't that what they are getting paid for? :D They do need to earn their money... :p

[peter_mary]

Frankly, I've been around too many sheep, and I'm here to tell ya, I ain't one of the Lord's sheep. They are mindless, dirty, helpless creatures who mangle whatever ground they're feeding upon, and who have had every inkling of intelligence bread out of them.

It is no wonder that Hales (and generations of pious, arrogant Christian leaders before him) compare Christians and Mormons to sheep... :rolleyes:

I have always admired the wolves far more than any sheep...

Peter_Mary

[free thinker]

In respect to lurching I suppose that I was thinking of the Adams Family. Isn't that where the character Lurch had his part? Actually, it would be difficult to engage anyone when two people have two stances that are at opposite ends of thought. But it would spice some things up a bit and give silverfox and free thinker a huge headache trying to moderate this forum. But on the other hand isn't that what they are getting paid for? They do need to earn their money...
__________________

No I am not seeking any confrontation. It would do no good in the long run. Both sides would leave the conversation more convinced of their position.

I have come to a conclusion. You will not see the fraud of the mormon faith unless you are ready. If you are not ready, you will lend your ear to the apologist's as this will be what you want to believe. You have to have an open mind to see the things we speak of here.

As we mentioned in the stages thread, that usually is caused by a destabilizing event, or geographic change.

An active member of the church is making too much sacrifice to think it may be somewhat in vain.

free thinker

[why me]

In respect to lurching I suppose that I was thinking of the Adams Family. Isn't that where the character Lurch had his part? Actually, it would be difficult to engage anyone when two people have two stances that are at opposite ends of thought. But it would spice some things up a bit and give silverfox and free thinker a huge headache trying to moderate this forum. But on the other hand isn't that what they are getting paid for? They do need to earn their money...
__________________

No I am not seeking any confrontation. It would do no good in the long run. Both sides would leave the conversation more convinced of their position.

I have come to a conclusion. You will not see the fraud of the mormon faith unless you are ready. If you are not ready, you will lend your ear to the apologist's as this will be what you want to believe. You have to have an open mind to see the things we speak of here.

As we mentioned in the stages thread, that usually is caused by a destabilizing event, or geographic change.

An active member of the church is making too much sacrifice to think it may be somewhat in vain.

free thinker
Can you be a postmormon without seeing the fraud? I think that this is an interesting question. I think that someone can be a postmormon without seeing the fraud, if the fraud exists. A postmormon can be someone who does not deny the faith but also wants to move beyond the faith. If we think that postmormon has multiple definitions and differences in reasons for being then we can reach a conclusion that being postmo is not exactly being a exmormon in some circumstances. I don't know if I am making any sense here but the postmormon interest is best served by accepting mulitiple definitions of the postmormon outlook. But what unites everyone who call themselve postmo is the seeking of life beyond the mormon way of doing life. I knew that you didn't want a confrontation. It really does serve no purpose except for the consumption of painrelievers for a headache. :)

[peter_mary]

Can you be a postmormon without seeing the fraud? I think that this is an interesting question. I think that someone can be a postmormon without seeing the fraud, if the fraud exists. A postmormon can be someone who does not deny the faith but also wants to move beyond the faith. If we think that postmormon has multiple definitions and differences in reasons for being then we can reach a conclusion that being postmo is not exactly being a exmormon in some circumstances. :)
Absolutley. "PostMormon" has room for people who hold the Church near and dear to their heart, but whose world is "bigger" somehow. It means that they can view the Church not in terms of it's "fraud," but in terms of its limits. Limits which they have pressed against for years, until it can contain them no longer. I think we have people on this forum now who fit this mold.

I also think that there are those who both keep the Church experience inside AND see it as a fraud. Or at least not always "honest in all its dealings."

I also think there are those who junked the whole kit and kaboodle (what the hell is a "kaboodle"?), but who never thought of it as a fraud.

There's all kinds of Postmormons...thank goodness!

Peter_Mary

[why me]

Absolutley. "PostMormon" has room for people who hold the Church near and dear to their heart, but whose world is "bigger" somehow. It means that they can view the Church not in terms of it's "fraud," but in terms of its limits. Limits which they have pressed against for years, until it can contain them no longer. I think we have people on this forum now who fit this mold.

I also think that there are those who both keep the Church experience inside AND see it as a fraud. Or at least not always "honest in all its dealings."

I also think there are those who junked the whole kit and kaboodle (what the hell is a "kaboodle"?), but who never thought of it as a fraud.

There's all kinds of Postmormons...thank goodness!

Peter_Mary
That's me. I could not take its limits or live the law. It can be terrible when that happens. But after time I have tried to accept who I am and I hope for the best in this life and in the next life if the next life exists... :( :) I don't know which face to have and so I chose two faces.

[free thinker]

That's me. I could not take its limits or live the law. It can be terrible when that happens. But after time I have tried to accept who I am and I hope for the best in this life and in the next life if the next life exists... I don't know which face to have and so I chose two faces.
__________________


To me, this shows some humility. IMHO a pinch of humility goes a long, long way!! But who am I to say?

I agree with peter-mary that there all all kinds of post-mo's. Oh, and I agree with why-me on this also. We all have our reasons for being here. I have mine!!

Welcome all!! I would like to see more post though. There are so many stories not being told or heard. :confused:

free thinker

[why me]

That's me. I could not take its limits or live the law. It can be terrible when that happens. But after time I have tried to accept who I am and I hope for the best in this life and in the next life if the next life exists... I don't know which face to have and so I chose two faces.
__________________


To me, this shows some humility. IMHO a pinch of humility goes a long, long way!! But who am I to say?

I agree with peter-mary that there all all kinds of post-mo's. Oh, and I agree with why-me on this also. We all have our reasons for being here. I have mine!!

Welcome all!! I would like to see more post though. There are so many stories not being told or heard. :confused:

free thinker
It would be nice to see more posts. But of course now we have a good small group of people exchanging views and opinions. But it would be great to have new blood too. We need to be challenged in our ideas and feel supported in our ideas. This is all a part of the growing process as human beings. :)

[dogzilla]

I also think there are those who junked the whole kit and kaboodle (what the hell is a "kaboodle"?), but who never thought of it as a fraud.

There's all kinds of Postmormons...thank goodness!

Peter_Mary

I was wondering that myself... From Dictionary.com:

"ca·boo·dle ( P ) Pronunciation Key (k-bdl)
n. Informal

1. The lot, group, or bunch: donated the whole caboodle.
2. A crowd or collection of people."

I didn't even know you'd misspelled it, either. :rolleyes:

[peter_mary]

"ca·boo·dle

I didn't even know you'd misspelled it, either. :rolleyes:

Yes, but you weren't the least bit surprised now, were you? :D

Peter_Mary, who wishes there was a spell-checker plug-in for his brain.

[dogzilla]

Yes, but you weren't the least bit surprised now, were you? :D

Peter_Mary, who wishes there was a spell-checker plug-in for his brain.

Um.

No offense meant but... of course not.

:D

-- Dogzilla, who also wishes there was a spell-checker plug-in for Peter_Mary's brain. ;)