Angels in America on Mormonism

[Born Free]

Angels in America (AiA) viewed in Australia last year, and all my exMo friends here loved its creativity and irreverent treatment of Moism (Urim and Thumin (sorry could not be bothered looking up the correct spelling of magic rocks) under the kitchen floor boards) and its many dysfunctional impacts (closetted gays hubbies, & insane wives). I just yesterday discussed with an exMo female friend that we should get the video, and make a viewing night as a group with pizza and wine, and have some group therapy. She loved the idea.

We currently have Carnivale viewing here, which I understand is from the same author. His treatment of Mosim in AiA suggested an intimate knowledge, but I have not been able to establish if he was ever Mormon. Can any of you North Americans cast any light on my question, and what was the response in exMo land (and Moland) to AiA?

[Born Free]

I gather no one has seen this television mini-series.

Plot: God has abandoned Heaven. It's 1985: the Reagans are in the White House and Death swings the scythe of AIDS. In Manhattan, Prior Walton tells Lou, his lover of four years, he's ill; Lou bolts. As disease and loneliness ravage Prior, guilt invades Lou. Joe Pitt, an attorney who is Mormon and Republican, is pushed by right-wing fixer Roy Cohn toward a job at the Justice Department. Both Pitt and Cohn are in the closet: Pitt out of shame and religious turmoil, Cohn to preserve his power and access. Pitt's wife Harper is strung out on Valium, aching to escape a sexless marriage. An angel invites Prior to be a prophet in death. Pitt's mother and Belize, a close friend, help Prior choose.

The cast was first class.

The Joe and Harper Pitt characters are both LDS, as is Joe's mother, played by Meryl Streep. (Just to get your attention, she has wild orgasmic sex with an angel in a scene that is beyond words.) Al Pacino plays Cohn. Streep also plays about 4 otehr characters including Ethel Rosenberg.

ExMos here(Oz) I know were gobsmacked by its boldness. I cannot imaging it did not enrage Mormonland.

Daryl

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0318997/

[peter_mary]

I gather no one has seen this television mini-series.

Daryl

Nope...no one at our house. But it sounds interesting!

Paul

[Jeff_Ricks]

I gather no one has seen this television mini-series.

Plot: God has abandoned Heaven. It's 1985: the Reagans are in the White House and Death swings the scythe of AIDS. In Manhattan, Prior Walton tells Lou, his lover of four years, he's ill; Lou bolts. As disease and loneliness ravage Prior, guilt invades Lou. Joe Pitt, an attorney who is Mormon and Republican, is pushed by right-wing fixer Roy Cohn toward a job at the Justice Department. Both Pitt and Cohn are in the closet: Pitt out of shame and religious turmoil, Cohn to preserve his power and access. Pitt's wife Harper is strung out on Valium, aching to escape a sexless marriage. An angel invites Prior to be a prophet in death. Pitt's mother and Belize, a close friend, help Prior choose.

The cast was first class.

The Joe and Harper Pitt characters are both LDS, as is Joe's mother, played by Meryl Streep. (Just to get your attention, she has wild orgasmic sex with an angel in a scene that is beyond words.) Al Pacino plays Cohn. Streep also plays about 4 otehr characters including Ethel Rosenberg.

ExMos here(Oz) I know were gobsmacked by its boldness. I cannot imaging it did not enrage Mormonland.

Daryl

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0318997/


I for one missed it. But then I live in Utah. Maybe they stopped it at the borders somehow. ;) I might try to find it weekend and watch it. You have me very curious about it.

Jeff

[silverfox]

I saw this dvd for rent in the new releases section of the video store. I've picked it up a few times but always put it back. Next time I will hold onto it. Now that I have an official "review". Thanks

[Born Free]

I saw this dvd for rent in the new releases section of the video store. I've picked it up a few times but always put it back. Next time I will hold onto it. Now that I have an official "review". Thanks

Silverfox,

I look forward to your response.

I just found it recently arrived on DVD rental here last night, but someone had it out last night. Be warned it is not the usual 90 minutes. As I recall it was 3 or 4 x 1 hour sessions, but once you are started, wild horses won't drag you away.

I think it was Paul remarked on The Village yesterday, and that is what I watched last night. Highly pertinent to MoLand.

Daryl

[noodle]

My husband recently caught the second half of Angels in America on HBO, and was so intrigued that he just bought the DVD. We will be watching it soon when we get a block of time...it is quite long. I hear that it actually was shown here in Logan, UT (oh my heck :eek: ) at the alternative theater. Anyway, Carnivale is also shown on HBO, and is really worth a look. The few episodes that I've seen were incredibly written, acted, filmed, etc. Very artistic!

[Jeff_Ricks]

My husband recently caught the second half of Angels in America on HBO, and was so intrigued that he just bought the DVD. We will be watching it soon when we get a block of time...it is quite long. I hear that it actually was shown here in Logan, UT (oh my heck :eek: ) at the alternative theater. Anyway, Carnivale is also shown on HBO, and is really worth a look. The few episodes that I've seen were incredibly written, acted, filmed, etc. Very artistic!


Hey there mamajama, do I know you? I'm from Logan too. Are you going to make it to the Southerton presentation on Friday? It's in the Eccles Conference Center adjoining rooms 205 and 207, starting at 6:00 PM. There's also a private reception for Southerton and all post-Mormons afterwards in the home of one of our local group members. Let me know if you need more information and if you would like to be placed on our local group email list.

If we've already met and I spaced it I apologize. I'm sure I'd recognize you if that were the case. I do better with faces than with names.

Jeff

[silverfox]

I read the back of the dvd in the rental store last night....disc 1 and didn't realize that Meryl Streep and Al Pacino star in it (two of a long list of my fav actors) Now I am REALLY excited to check it out.!! I was outvoted by my family last night so I will go get it on Monday.

[noodle]

Hey there mamajama, do I know you? I'm from Logan too. Are you going to make it to the Southerton presentation on Friday? It's in the Eccles Conference Center adjoining rooms 205 and 207, starting at 6:00 PM. There's also a private reception for Southerton and all post-Mormons afterwards in the home of one of our local group members. Let me know if you need more information and if you would like to be placed on our local group email list.

If we've already met and I spaced it I apologize. I'm sure I'd recognize you if that were the case. I do better with faces than with names.

Jeff

Don't think we've met, but I've enjoyed your "letters to the editor," etc. I would love to hear Southerton, but we will be out of town. It's this Friday, right?

[lsands]

It won all kinds of awards both for acting and story. Even without the Mormon angle, it is one of the most creative and affecting dramatic works you will ever see, with acting performances that are unsurpassed. Al Pacino's role as the AID's-afflicted Roy Cohn (an actual person) is riveting.

Just a waring: This movie, adapted from the play, is 6 hours long and not for the faint of heart or easily offended. There is some fairly graphic sex and language. The first part of it can leave you feeling drained and depressed, but keep watching. Another heads-up: the actors play multiple roles, so watch the characters closely.

The first scene with the Mormon wife married to the gay man has her taking Valium while making green jello! She becomes addicted to Valium to hide from herself the knowledge she has that her squeaky-clean Mormon husband is gay (he doesn't know it either.)

I read on the exmo board that Tony Kushner, the author of the play, had an ex-LDS partner. He clearly had an insider's view because all of the info. is dead-on accurate. One of the last scenes is between the young Mo wife and her mother-in-law, Meryl Streep, and is set in the NYC LDS visitor's center. The female statue in the handcart company starts talking to the wife (that's what a Valium addiction will do for you!) It's priceless!

My still-Mo son and his wife rented it and watched the first two hours, then returned it. He talked to me about how much it disturbed him. I told him that I understood, and that I wouldn't have been able to watch it as a Mo either. We talked a little about the reasons why.

After you've seen it, come back here and talk about it. I'd love to hear your reactions.

[silverfox]

I rented this last night...disk 1 and hope to start watching it tonight.

[mutleydog]

Wow! That sounds well intriguing! Do you think I would be able to find a copy in the highlands of Scotland?! I wish!

Has anyone seen the film "Latter Days" about a gay mormon missionary?

That is another film that has intrigued me.

[Born Free]

Wow! That sounds well intriguing! Do you think I would be able to find a copy in the highlands of Scotland?! I wish!

Has anyone seen the film "Latter Days" about a gay mormon missionary?

That is another film that has intrigued me.

When AiA screened in Australia it was promoted as having a massive audience in the UK, so it should be there. What that means for the highlands is anoteh rquestion again!

Daryl

[silverfox]

Wow! That sounds well intriguing! Do you think I would be able to find a copy in the highlands of Scotland?! I wish!

Has anyone seen the film "Latter Days" about a gay mormon missionary?

That is another film that has intrigued me.

Hahaha Latter Days has caused a HUGE rukus in some parts of Utard.....seems some members are renting it by mistake, not realizing what it is about and then FREAKING out when they start watching it. I've heard rumor that some video stores were being sued over it and asked to pull it. Can you believe it????

[Born Free]

Hahaha Latter Days has caused a HUGE rukus in some parts of Utard.....seems some members are renting it by mistake, not realizing what it is about and then FREAKING out when they start watching it. I've heard rumor that some video stores were being sued over it and asked to pull it. Can you believe it????

The funniest takeoff of Mormonism I have seen on our free-to-air TV here was Orgasmo. (Free to air TV in this country is much, much more liberal that in the US, thank goodness!)

The young Mo missionary somehow gets super powers, and is also tricked into becoming a porno star.

The part that broke me up, was when he had to break the news to the 'betrothed' who was eagerly awaiting his return from a mission so they can rush to the Temple. She is not too bothered how he is making the money, just so long as she gets to live the standard Mo Dream!

It is mega #iss-take, in the production style of LA porn. Needless to say, it fails to reach the artistic heights of AiA, but still a great laugh at something deserving of little more.

Daryl

[silverfox]

I watched the first disk last night. The unique artistic creativity is AWESOME!!! I LOVE the way this series is done.

I fell in love with Harper. She is so fragile. I wanted to climb into the TV and be her friend. And then on one hand I admired that she could escape reality into such sweet adventures.....(loved the eskimo!)

The only problem I have with the series so far is it seems to depict gays as very promiscuous. Now, this may be because when the whole AIDS thing broke wide open in the 80s this was the American public's view. I've never been comfortable with that view. I've always felt that the gay movement is probably not any more promiscuous than the heteros out there.

You just gotta love the way Pacino says the F word...it's classic! The same in all his movies. heeeeeee

I was on the floor laughing my butt off when Meryl Streep approached the homeless woman in the middle of the night. A Mo mom desperate to find her son, walking around lugging two suitcases in the middle of the Bronx. LOL TOO FUNNY! And the way she announces she is from Salt Lake....like that makes her special.

This series really does suck you in. I love how harsh reality is depicted...nothing sugarcoated. Now I have to hurry and get disk 2...can't stand being left hanging!

[Born Free]

I watched the first disk last night. The unique artistic creativity is AWESOME!!! I LOVE the way this series is done.

I fell in love with Harper. She is so fragile. I wanted to climb into the TV and be her friend. And then on one hand I admired that she could escape reality into such sweet adventures.....(loved the eskimo!)

The only problem I have with the series so far is it seems to depict gays as very promiscuous. Now, this may be because when the whole AIDS thing broke wide open in the 80s this was the American public's view. I've never been comfortable with that view. I've always felt that the gay movement is probably not any more promiscuous than the heteros out there.

You just gotta love the way Pacino says the F word...it's classic! The same in all his movies. heeeeeee

I was on the floor laughing my butt off when Meryl Streep approached the homeless woman in the middle of the night. A Mo mom desperate to find her son, walking around lugging two suitcases in the middle of the Bronx. LOL TOO FUNNY! And the way she announces she is from Salt Lake....like that makes her special.

This series really does suck you in. I love how harsh reality is depicted...nothing sugarcoated. Now I have to hurry and get disk 2...can't stand being left hanging!

Silverfox,

The 2 DVDs are rented together here for 3 nights, so Friday night I took in the entire 6 or so hours in one sitting, and LOVED it.

I had previously missed the part where the Valium spaced out wife of the closetted gay Mormon lawyer asks him if he is "a homo".

His response is classic Mormon insanity. He says in effect, "I may be deep down, but I hate and loath that, and I try with everything in my being to be acceptable to the Lord, and no one can ask any more than that!"

Talk about disassociation!

In an earlier scene where the wife, in a Valium induced trance ,meets the AIDS infected gay lead in his dream, he utters a powerful line that applies to many misguided efforts to make reality fit our beliefs. He says "You know generally I say f#ck reality; but what I find is that reality f#cks me".

No truer words.........

On the issue of gay promiscuity, I have several observations/interpretations:

Much of the value society places upon fidelity could be argued to keep the nuclear family intact until the children have transcended the need of family support.

2ndly society still gives many gays and lesbians such a hard time, that I am sure that creates a psychological impact, and that one coping response, may be to use sex to self-medicate for things like depression.

I am also sure that many groups and people in society have their own reasons for demonizing gays and lesbians, and in a puritanical setting, few fear-tactics works better than painting someone as a sex fiend.

Daryl

[nikki]

Wow! That sounds well intriguing! Do you think I would be able to find a copy in the highlands of Scotland?! I wish!

Has anyone seen the film "Latter Days" about a gay mormon missionary?

That is another film that has intrigued me.

Oh, I saw the "Latter Days" DVD when I was checking out a few movies, I was so mean though. I went to another section in the store, found a DVD with the title of something like "The Devil's Children" and placed it in front of the Latter-Days DVD! :rolleyes:

O.k. do I need to repent? lol !

[silverfox]

Oh, I saw the "Latter Days" DVD when I was checking out a few movies, I was so mean though. I went to another section in the store, found a DVD with the title of something like "The Devil's Children" and placed it in front of the Latter-Days DVD! :rolleyes:

O.k. do I need to repent? lol !

You BAD girl! lol

[silverfox]

Silverfox,

The 2 DVDs are rented together here for 3 nights, so Friday night I took in the entire 6 or so hours in one sitting, and LOVED it.

I had previously missed the part where the Valium spaced out wife of the closetted gay Mormon lawyer asks him if he is "a homo".

His response is classic Mormon insanity. He says in effect, "I may be deep down, but I hate and loath that, and I try with everything in my being to be acceptable to the Lord, and no one can ask any more than that!"

Talk about disassociation!

In an earlier scene where the wife, in a Valium induced trance ,meets the AIDS infected gay lead in his dream, he utters a powerful line that applies to many misguided efforts to make reality fit our beliefs. He says "You know generally I say f#ck reality; but what I find is that reality f#cks me".

No truer words.........

On the issue of gay promiscuity, I have several observations/interpretations:

Much of the value society places upon fidelity could be argued to keep the nuclear family intact until the children have transcended the need of family support.

2ndly society still gives many gays and lesbians such a hard time, that I am sure that creates a psychological impact, and that one coping response, may be to use sex to self-medicate for things like depression.

I am also sure that many groups and people in society have their own reasons for demonizing gays and lesbians, and in a puritanical setting, few fear-tactics works better than painting someone as a sex fiend.

Daryl

I watched disk two. I think I need to watch it again. I did doze through some pieces, not because it was boring but because I was burned out. sigh. I love the creative artistic feel - the stone faces coming to life, the angel herself (I! I! I! I! I! I! - this made me giggle for some reason) (oooo and let's not forget to mention FINALLY some full frontal male nudity - we girls rarely get to see THAT!)

I want to buy this movie and analyze it more deeply. Harper's hubby comes crawling back to her after his male lover dumps him. (their sex scene after his return was FUNNY! HEEE I just love Harper and her reactions to things)

I felt bad for Harper's hubby (why can't I remember his name...was it JOE???) at the end. But it might be because I am familiar behind the scenes what a gay Mormon must go through. Forcing themselves into a straight marriage like a good Mo should. Fighting his homosexuality. He finally confronts it, calls Mommy - (Meryl Streep is just amazing...all the characters she plays including the executed ghost trying to torture Pacino...heeee) leaves his wife to be with a new lover who has left his AIDS ridden boyfriend.

His new lover leaves him to go back to his boyfriend. He just seems so alone at the end. Confused. He wants his lover boy back. I dunno I felt he was just very very alone at the end, as though he was being punished finally for coming out. But then again, maybe it depicts how difficult it is coming out, finding your first gay lover and it depicts the reality of how gays are subject to being emotionally hurt, too just like heteros. He hurts Harper, his lover hurts him. I need to watch it again and focus on the hubby. I was glad to see the Mormon mommy hanging out with the gay dudes. That was awesome.

I am rambling. Check out this movie, folks.

[nikki]

You BAD girl! lol

I know, it just hits me every once in awhile! :D

[flotsam]

Watched Angels in America over the last week.

One word.

Amazing.

I am absolutely in love with that show. It was kind of interesting, today at Ward Conference the Stake President told us that giving gays rights would be a sin, and I got really angry. I usually don't get that angry when someone says something like that and I wondered why I reacted so vigorously. I realized it was because I had become so attached to the gay characters in Angels in America, watching them mess up, struggle, prophecy, and have fiery sex with angels. It was like the stake pres saying, "King Lear, what a complete and utter idiot."

But I saw some things in Angels that made me think.

One: the character arc of Joe Pitt (the Mormon coming out of the closet). He's struggling at the beginning with issues that I'm afraid also haunt heterosexuals as well (though probably not to such a degree). He's afraid of his sexuality and the damage its expression could do to his soul. He's gone to great lengths to bury it. And it wants out.

So he finally shacks up with Louis (the guy who ditches his AIDS-infected partner), and starts looking a lot better. He looks freer and happier. Interestingly he still holds on to much of his former life: his Republican politics, his Mormonism - the only thing that has changed is what gender he has sex with. But soon we see that he is very attached to Louis, more than is really healthy. His wife leaves him, even though he still loves her and tries to get her back. He is unable to ever connect with his mom (as far as the plot tells us, anyway). The end of his story is a downer. He's the only character who ends on a negative value besides Al Pacino's character, Roy.

I think this is interesting. Kushner (the author) showed someone "converting" to homosexuality and coming to a bad end. It's interesting because I think Kushner is gay himself, he certainly writes beautifully about the culture and the people. Why would he show someone coming out of a homophobic culture into the gay lifestyle without a happy ending?

But then there's the Meryl Streep character, Hannah (Joe Pitt's mom). She emerges from Mormonism as well, and through her interaction with Prior (the character with AIDS) she emerges humane, free and joyful.

Very interesting.

I was fascinated with the presentation of the angel (Emma Thompson's character). Her mind was obviously not the mind of humanity. She was like a half-insane Shakespeare. She destroys whatever room she comes into; she has eight vaginas and has sex via pillars of flame. She's so completely wrapped up in her world that she has a hard time communicating with Prior. She can't understand his reluctance. She's annoyed that she has to rewrite scripture in order to accommodate his shortcomings.

But when she's caught off-guard, becoming human for just a moment, she immediately shoots back into the angel perspective.

The story she spins (God lost interest in the angels because humans were progressing and causing earthquakes in heaven, and God disappeared with the San Francisco earthquake) it totally logical if you accept her premise (and she herself is the premise, how can you doubt?), but completely mad in the light of day.

It gave me some sympathy for the utter weirdness of Joseph Smith's story. How on earth does one mediate between mad divinity and the mundane earth?

The other thing that threw me off again and again was how much the music reminded me of Church film music. I mean, it was exactly the same genre, swelling symphonies, melancholy chamber, conversion violin solos. I wondered if the director and composer did it on purpose to play it off of the Church's films.

[Born Free]

Watched Angels in America over the last week.

One word.

Amazing.

I am absolutely in love with that show. <snip>
Flotsam,

I am glad you loved it. I think it is brilliant and am still considering buying my own copy.

We currently have Carnivale screening here by the same director - the second series. (I am not sure whether it was released in two sets over there).

It is very complex (OK, I-statement time - I find it very complex) not helped by the fact that I have missed a few episodes. It is very black on religion, whilst again very open to the existence of the 'altered experience'.

Interestingly, I did not see the ending as black. I thought it very reality based; no happy endings, but tremendously affirming of the value of connecting with others in their/our humanity whilst staying very present for the reality that we all die one day.

I thought the treatment of Joe most interesting. At the end he was isolated, whilst the others were connected in all their diversity. If I recall his last scene well, I found it interesting that he was last seen going into the underground. Isn't that (our inner world) where all our deep processing, integration and breakthroughs are made? Yes he was alone, but we need to find our comfort with our separateness, before we can find solutions that work for us.

Daryl

[aether]

The only problem I have with the series so far is it seems to depict gays as very promiscuous. Now, this may be because when the whole AIDS thing broke wide open in the 80s this was the American public's view. I've never been comfortable with that view. I've always felt that the gay movement is probably not any more promiscuous than the heteros out there.

Well, gays are not any more promiscuous that heteros are, on a proportionate level of course. But what you are forgetting is that the reason AIDs came to be seen as the "gay disease" was that the gays WERE being so promiscuous, and that's why so many of them did get AIDs.

But nobody knows that either. You'd be appalled at the amount of people who believe you get AIDS by having homosexual sex, regardless of whether your partner is infected or not.

I haven't actually seen Angels in America, but I've been wanting to since I heard about it a year ago. Next time I go home for the weekend I'm going to rent it and force everyone to watch it with me.

[david]

Daryl,
I want to say thanks for originally starting this thread. It piqued my curiosity about this film, and several months ago I checked out AiA and watched it. I am a major film buff, but there are only a handful of films that I would consider life-changing. This is one of them. Thanks for the tip!

AiA ran on Broadway for many years back in the late 80's. Garnered many awards. I actually saw Part I when it came to Seattle in/around 1990. But I never saw part II when it came here, and over the years my memories of the play faded. Part II gives part I much more meaning, and I missed it. So I actually liked the movie version much better, partly because it is so long, and it's easier to pace it when watching the DVD.

Like all truly great works of art, AiA captures the transcendent themes (love/devotion, spirituality/religion) that are present in the everyday struggles of people like you and I. It put so many things in perspective for me. All of the characters undergo deep transformation, some life affirming, some not. It's like looking into space (the space of the soul), leaving you awed and filled with wonder, even when it doesn't provide answers. Except one message which comes thru clearly: tolerance.

Having a gay brother, and a sister who lives in NYC, made the film resonate even more for me. My bro and I are convinced that my TBM parents need to see this film, but we don't know how to pull it off. Too much "off putting" material. It's a shame, because there is so much humanity in it.

[free thinker]

Except one message which comes thru clearly: tolerance.


Since we can never walk in another's shoes, this is so important.


ft

[ifitmakesuhappy]

I saw both these films a while ago, when first mentioned on these boards (was it Daryl??), I managed to download them both (think AiA was in 6 parts) so im not sure if they are available over here in the U.K. Both films well worth a watch -

Latter Days was fascinating just because even without trying it was so disrespectful to Moism, and showed me how far i had came in my journey away from TSCC.

Angels in America had me HOOKED. I don't have a great mind for remembering which films i have seen or what happened in them, but this is one of the few that will stay with me. For those who haven't seen it yet, you gotta go find a copy!

[lunaverse]

I just watched this movie... Had it not been for the recommendation here, I never would have known what it was about. :) I had no interest in it based on the cover.

Conversly, it probably hooks a lot of people who would have no interest in the content, but rent it for the cover. :)

I am driven by a need to know how the author (Tony Kushner) was intimate enough with Mormon culture to pull it off.

In my research, I've found that Kushner was born Jewish, and probably still is. The only theory is that he had/has an exmo lover/partner.

He is married to a magazine editor, Mark Harris. I don't know, maybe that guy is ex-mo?

Because the spoof on the Joseph Smith story is too rich. The situations, the characters, the wording, every detail is too Mormon to reflect mere research. Especially considering it was written in 1992, long before the internet could be used as a resource.

Joe's mom looked and sounded almost exactly like my mom. Harper's story was too much like like a random sampling from the RfM boards. The guy who plays Joe looked and acted just like an ex-boyfriend of mine (who is also a closeted something -- I'm not sure what).

It was too dead-on to be something a writer thought, "Wouldn't it be neat to have a couple of Mormon characters?" No, he was emotionally invested in telling those stories, and he knew too much about Mormon people.

Maybe I could email him and find out? :) Because I've got to know!

Luna