Did the temple changes really happen?

[elder_nomo]

I recently read a post (on RfM, I think?) from someone who was talking to a TBM about the 1990 changes to the temple rituals. The TBM apparently had her first temple experience after 1990 because she refused to believe that it had ever been any other way. She also refused to look at any websites that proved the changes, because they were "anti" sites and probably falsified.

Since it's highly doubtful the church would ever confirm or deny the changes, is this going to be the way of the future? Anybody know any TBMs who deny the temple changes took place?

I personally witnessed and participated in the sacred throat-slashing and disembowelment ceremonies, so I have no doubts. I suppose when there are none of us pre-1990 folks left, it will become another "disputed" issue. sigh.

[free thinker]

.. all you can say is pe- le- ale !!! :D

free thinker

[helemon]

.. all you can say is pe- le- ale !!! :D

free thinker

Which as everyone knows means pass the beer in French. :D
Or at least it sounds like it does.

adieu!

[hamar]

Which as everyone knows means pass the beer in French. :D
Or at least it sounds like it does.

adieu!

I would have guessed that it was a beer named after a South American Soccer star.

I was cleaning out my dresser the other day and came accross a package of nice white hankies. I got one out and went out in the living room and gave my wife a hosanna shout. :D

[helemon]

I personally witnessed and participated in the sacred throat-slashing and disembowelment ceremonies, so I have no doubts. I suppose when there are none of us pre-1990 folks left, it will become another "disputed" issue. sigh.

So did I. The changes occurred while I was on my mission. I saw it before and after.

[elder_nomo]

So did I. The changes occurred while I was on my mission. I saw it before and after.
OK, now for the deep doctrinal question of the day...

Since I took the throat-slashing/disemboweling pledge, and haven't been back since, I assume that I'm living under that promise and I'm going to have some blood to clean up around here one of these days.

But now here's my buddy, Helemon, who participated in both versions. Which one is in effect for him? Does he get off scott-free? Or is he also stuck with his original promise?
Maybe they can just split the difference - cut the throat but leave the tummy intact? Or would he get to pick which body part to save?

[Jeff_Ricks]

I would have guessed that it was a beer named after a South American Soccer star.

I was cleaning out my dresser the other day and came accross a package of nice white hankies. I got one out and went out in the living room and gave my wife a hosanna shout. :D
http://home.teleport.com/~packham/paleale1.gif

CHEERS!

Jeff

[hamar]

CHEERS!

Jeff

I love it! :D

[helemon]

But now here's my buddy, Helemon, who participated in both versions. Which one is in effect for him? Does he get off scott-free? Or is he also stuck with his original promise?
Maybe they can just split the difference - cut the throat but leave the tummy intact? Or would he get to pick which body part to save?

Since my own endowments were done with the original throat slashing, heart ripping, and bowel spilling penalties, it would be that version which would apply. It is the dead person who gets off scott free. But why would they care one way or the other since they are already dead. Unless you can disembowel a spirit! :eek: :Puking

[elder_nomo]

Since my own endowments were done with the original throat slashing, heart ripping, and bowel spilling penalties, it would be that version which would apply. It is the dead person who gets off scott free. But why would they care one way or the other since they are already dead. Unless you can disembowel a spirit! :eek: :Puking

Helemon, you slay me!!! :D

er, uh, no, I guess I will be slaying myself... :duh

[free thinker]

Laugh out loud funny. You guys are too much!!

I almost split a gut. Hey there is the answer. If you split your gut laughing, you dont have to rip it open with a knife. ;)

Think about the minds of the men that would create this grizzly stuff. And all in the name of Christ. :Crazy: Brother.

I need a Pa Lay Ale now.

free thinker

[Born Free]

I am here to attest that the changes occurred.

I went through the NZ temple in about 1973 or 74 with my wife, and the R or M rated bits were still there at that time.

Anyone who claims they did not occur has developed amnesia, but repetition of the new version may make memories of the old memories recede.

Either that or they put something in the sacrament water at Church that erases selected memories. (Come to think about it, when I look at all the stuff good Mos conveniently forget, that is a likely explanation :duh ).

Daryl (54 years in chronological years!!!)

[hamar]

I am here to attest that the changes occurred.

I went through the NZ temple in about 1973 or 74 with my wife, and the R or M rated bits were still there at that time.

Anyone who claims they did not occur has developed amnesia, but repetition of the new version may make memories of the old memories recede.

Either that or they put something in the sacrament water at Church that erases selected memories. (Come to think about it, when I look at all the stuff good Mos conveniently forget, that is a likely explanation :duh ).

Daryl (54 years in chronological years!!!)


I can't testify to that as well. Been there done that. It happened. This Pey Lay Ale is for you bros.

[peter_mary]

I can testify to that as well. Been there done that. It happened. This Pey Lay Ale is for you bros.

Hey! I've "been there, done that, got the same t-shirt!" The one with the little throat and belly slashes! It's pretty disgusting, but I intend to keep it as long as I am alive and people deny that the temple ever included that kind of nonsense.

:Puking

Peter_Mary

[helemon]

Hey! I've "been there, done that, got the same t-shirt!" The one with the little throat and belly slashes! It's pretty disgusting, but I intend to keep it as long as I am alive and people deny that the temple ever included that kind of nonsense.

:Puking

Peter_Mary

That would make a great T-Shirt for Dark and Keene's site. Just in time for Halloween. They could print it on a mock T and have graphics that make it look like the person's throat heart and bowels have been slashed open and are exposed. The back could say something like "I sold my tokens for money."

[elder_nomo]

"I sold my tokens for money."
ROFLMAO :D

On a related note, I happened on to a web site that has sound recordings of temple ceremonies. There are both pre- and post-1990 versions.
I have seen a few web sites before with some pictures and text, but this is the first time I've come across one with audio.
I gotta tell ya... it's been close to 30 years since I've heard the words "Pay Lay Ale" out loud, and it (along with lots of other stuff) sounded very creepy and cultish to me. Maybe I've been unmormonized for too long. [or just long enough!]

http://www.helpingmormons.org/enter.htm

The audio links are near the bottom.
Warning: I think this whole web site is a christian group that tries to convert mormons.
Warning #2: If you think listening to the temple stuff outside the temple or seeing photos and drawings, etc. is disrespectful, don't go there.

[peter_mary]

http://www.helpingmormons.org/enter.htm

The audio links are near the bottom.
Warning: I think this whole web site is a christian group that tries to convert mormons.
Warning #2: If you think listening to the temple stuff outside the temple or seeing photos and drawings, etc. is disrespectful, don't go there.

Actually, the reason I shouldn't have checked out the link is not for either of your warnings, but rather for a third:

Warning #3: If you are at work, and you are surrounded by Mormons, and you value your job and your life, don't play the audio portion of this website!

:duh

Living and learning the hard way...

Peter_Mary

[helemon]

Warning #3: If you are at work, and you are surrounded by Mormons, and you value your job and your life, don't play the audio portion of this website!

:duh

Living and learning the hard way...

Peter_Mary
:eek: :slap: :slap:
Man that must have been embarassing. Good thing those bloody penalties have been removed!

Invest in a pair of headphones!

[elder_nomo]

Actually, the reason I shouldn't have checked out the link is not for either of your warnings, but rather for a third:

Warning #3: If you are at work, and you are surrounded by Mormons, and you value your job and your life, don't play the audio portion of this website!

:duh

Living and learning the hard way...

Peter_Mary
Oh my heck, P_M - I'm so sorry!!
You can give me a few of these :slap:
Really, how bad was it??

[peter_mary]

Oh my heck, P_M - I'm so sorry!!
You can give me a few of these :slap:
Really, how bad was it??

Let's just say that I have a NEW shirt with all the slashes at the throat, heart and belly, and the realism is sufficient to make a person ill...

:D

Actually, not to worry Elder Nomo, I'm dumb, but I'm not THAT dumb! :p I only considered playing it here at work, but I realized that I would be taking my life in my own hands, going, as it were, "like a sheep to the slaughter."

Peter_Mary

[elder_nomo]

Let's just say that I have a NEW shirt with all the slashes at the throat, heart and belly, and the realism is sufficient to make a person ill...

:D

Actually, not to worry Elder Nomo, I'm dumb, but I'm not THAT dumb! :p I only considered playing it here at work, but I realized that I would be taking my life in my own hands, going, as it were, "like a sheep to the slaughter."

Peter_Mary
Glad you survived. I would hate to think I helped make a hell of your life on earth. I mean, since you're going to outer darkness and all later, you should have at least a little bit of a break now.

Like a sheep to the slaughter?
You mean like JS?
So you were armed....(?)

[mamawortsh]

Yes, the changes happened. I personally know one member here in Norway who nearly quit going to church after that. You know, Joseph Smith said the endowment would never change, that it was everlasting. I have been a member in the LDS-church for 40 years, they can't fool me any more, I've seen it all... I have a rather old copy of church history with the story of the Kinderhook-plates intact, very useful sometimes...

Hugs to you all!

Mama

[peter_mary]

Yes, the changes happened. I personally know one member here in Norway who nearly quit going to church after that. You know, Joseph Smith said the endowment would never change, that it was everlasting. I have been a member in the LDS-church for 40 years, they can't fool me any more, I've seen it all... I have a rather old copy of church history with the story of the Kinderhook-plates intact, very useful sometimes...

Hugs to you all!

Mama

Mama!

Sneak in here in some thread without formal introductions, will you? ;)

Welcome to PostMo, clear out there in NORWAY! This is so cool to be in contact with people all over the friggin' world!

And I'd be interested in highlights from the Kinderhook story in your Church History...

Peter_Mary

[mamawortsh]

Mama!

Sneak in here in some thread without formal introductions, will you? ;)

Welcome to PostMo, clear out there in NORWAY! This is so cool to be in contact with people all over the friggin' world!

And I'd be interested in highlights from the Kinderhook story in your Church History...

Peter_Mary

Thank you for welcoming me!
I guess I should have introduced myself somewhere here, but I don't know exactly how and where, I only discovered this site today, so I just signed up and started talking at once. I guess I'm not able to shut up at all these days.

You see, I sent my resignation letter to my bishop yesterday, and today my visiting sisters came, I guess for the last time. So I gave them a presentation of my views, The book of Abraham, the Indian DNA, The Kinderhook plates and so on. They looked deeply worried when they left. I have known one of them from my youth, and that's a long time ago...

They said that they're not giving up on me, and that's nice, because it means that I get a chance to show them "The Lost Book of Abraham" before they'll be gone for good.

Mama

[mamawortsh]

Mama!

Sneak in here in some thread without formal introductions, will you? ;)

Welcome to PostMo, clear out there in NORWAY! This is so cool to be in contact with people all over the friggin' world!

And I'd be interested in highlights from the Kinderhook story in your Church History...

Peter_Mary

I have a feeling the bishop will stop my visiting sisters from coming any more, what do you think? I guess if I were him, I'd certainly stop them. I'm not a safe person for Mormons anymore, I can feel that, because I have the best cards now that I know that the whole thing was a fraud. In fact that nearly makes me LIKE Joseph Smiths personality, he reminds me of all the other frauds of his time, and I have a nose for comics and funny people...

I haven't had the time to read all the info in the Hist. of the church yet about the Kinderhook plates, I'll fill you in later about that.

Mama

[why me]

Thank you for welcoming me!
I guess I should have introduced myself somewhere here, but I don't know exactly how and where, I only discovered this site today, so I just signed up and started talking at once. I guess I'm not able to shut up at all these days.

You see, I sent my resignation letter to my bishop yesterday, and today my visiting sisters came, I guess for the last time. So I gave them a presentation of my views, The book of Abraham, the Indian DNA, The Kinderhook plates and so on. They looked deeply worried when they left. I have known one of them from my youth, and that's a long time ago...

They said that they're not giving up on me, and that's nice, because it means that I get a chance to show them "The Lost Book of Abraham" before they'll be gone for good.

Mama
I just want to welcome you to the forum too. Great to have someone from Norway. I hope that I don't piss you off with my posts :D but I do want to welcome you to the forum..Take care on the fjords.... :)