Inauguration Ethnocentrism

[peter_mary]

This is not intended to be a political statement, but rather an observation of paradigms and ethnocentrism.

This is a quote from President Bush's inauguration speech:

"So it is the policy of the United States to seek and support the growth of democratic movements and institutions in every nation and culture, with the ultimate goal of ending tyranny in our world."

What if we replace the word "democratic" with any of the following:

a) communist

b) Mormon

c) Christian

d) Muslim

e) Nazi

My point is only that it feels good to us if we happen to be a member of the inside group...in this case a citizen of the United States who happens to believe in the Democratic model. But how might that appear to those who see us differently than we do? How does it make you feel if you imagine one of the Ayatollahs saying the exact same thing, but with the word "Muslim" inserted? Or Hitler saying the exact same thing but with the word "Nazi" inserted? It's really not a wonder that we don't get along. What is amazing is that any of us get along at all!


Just wondering aloud to my friends...

Paul

[nate]

My point is only that it feels good to us if we happen to be a member of the inside group...in this case a citizen of the United States who happens to believe in the Democratic model. But how might that appear to those who see us differently than we do? How does it make you feel if you imagine one of the Ayatollahs saying the exact same thing, but with the word "Muslim" inserted? Or Hitler saying the exact same thing but with the word "Nazi" inserted? It's really not a wonder that we don't get along. What is amazing is that any of us get along at all!

Great point Paul! This helps confirm my own belief that Nationalism is just glorified Separatism.

[silverfox]

This is not intended to be a political statement, but rather an observation of paradigms and ethnocentrism.

This is a quote from President Bush's inauguration speech:

"So it is the policy of the United States to seek and support the growth of democratic movements and institutions in every nation and culture, with the ultimate goal of ending tyranny in our world."

What if we replace the word "democratic" with any of the following:

a) communist

b) Mormon

c) Christian

d) Muslim

e) Nazi

My point is only that it feels good to us if we happen to be a member of the inside group...in this case a citizen of the United States who happens to believe in the Democratic model. But how might that appear to those who see us differently than we do? How does it make you feel if you imagine one of the Ayatollahs saying the exact same thing, but with the word "Muslim" inserted? Or Hitler saying the exact same thing but with the word "Nazi" inserted? It's really not a wonder that we don't get along. What is amazing is that any of us get along at all!


Just wondering aloud to my friends...

Paul

Intresting, Paul. I don't intend to turn this into a political dialogue either. As an example I've seriously wondered how the Iraqi people feel about the election, etc, etc, etc. (I notice I've been using "etc, etc, etc" alot lately but it equals to "not enough time right now to elaborate")

I mean to us, it's a democratic election process is a normal part of our lives, our structure, etc. But to the Iraqi people this must be a very foreign event to them. Do they really understand it? (thinking outloud) How are they being educated? How do you introduce a way of government? (again just thinking out loud)

What are the realistic expectations regarding the outcome? I find it all very interesting.

[nikki]

This is not intended to be a political statement, but rather an observation of paradigms and ethnocentrism.

This is a quote from President Bush's inauguration speech:

"So it is the policy of the United States to seek and support the growth of democratic movements and institutions in every nation and culture, with the ultimate goal of ending tyranny in our world."

What if we replace the word "democratic" with any of the following:

a) communist

b) Mormon

c) Christian

d) Muslim

e) Nazi

My point is only that it feels good to us if we happen to be a member of the inside group...in this case a citizen of the United States who happens to believe in the Democratic model. But how might that appear to those who see us differently than we do? How does it make you feel if you imagine one of the Ayatollahs saying the exact same thing, but with the word "Muslim" inserted? Or Hitler saying the exact same thing but with the word "Nazi" inserted? It's really not a wonder that we don't get along. What is amazing is that any of us get along at all!


Just wondering aloud to my friends...

Paul

We are not a true Democratic nation, we are a Republic. If we were a true democratic nation, everyone in the country would have equal say, and the represesention of 'special interest' would not be so heavy in our nation.

I am not sure if anyone one else on the board is having a bit of a diffiuclt time today, in wondering about the 'timely' announcement of four Chinesse Nationals and two Iraqi's heading to, no other place than, Boston, Mass.

Especially, since the Church the past week or so, is having to explain itself in another 'child sexual assult', which was not reported to the police and nicely put aside for sometime by Boston area LDS Chruch leaders.

Anyone one else seeing a fashback of Mountains Meadows here?

Chinese Nationals? Where did this come from. First, the only knowlege I know of where any Asian's have had some contact with Al Quida is in Tajikistan, who are wanting to seperate from China. They have been badly treated by China as the Tibetian's have.

The people of Tajikistan were very pro American at one time, until we forgot about them ( we have a habit of this), and in trying to win their independance Al Quida has offer some of it's support.

But, I fail to see how Tajikistan's would involve themselves here, since there only interst has been in independence for their own nation.

The 'unknown caller' who gave the tip, has been called 'sketchy intelligence, and no credible basis of reports" in news by some souces.

Boy, isn't the timing of this really great. The church can maybe turn the heat off of it's self and the investigation in Massachusetts of LDS Church child abuse in Boston.

Chinese Nationals? huh ? when did they get involved with Al Quida? Sorry, I just cannot think of a time I know of. If anyone else on the board know different, tell me about it?

Mountian Meadows? Oh, the Indian's did it!

Boston, Watch out the Iraqi's are coming!!

:rolleyes:

*P.S. if China wanted to hurt us they would do it through the American dollar.

[Born Free]

This is not intended to be a political statement, but rather an observation of paradigms and ethnocentrism.

This is a quote from President Bush's inauguration speech:

Just wondering aloud to my friends...

Paul

Great primer Paul,

You would love Spong. He took about 4 essays to deconstruct the last US election. And one of his main thrusts is along those lines. Tribal, fear-based thinking.

Contrast that outlook that with this definition of spirituality from an Australian author:

"The reason 'spiritual' is used here in relation to the dimension that distinguishes the human from the animal. We believe that human beings have a 'spiritual' dimension in that (i) they are capable of self-consciousness, and (ii) they are capable of making a metaphysical paradigm shift from a core motive of competitive survival (FEAR) to a core motive of collective survival (LOVE). Such a paradigm shift, we believe, is the uniquely human choice that represents the great divide between those whose lives naturally contribute to the building up of the dynamic structures that provide for shared existence, and those whose lives naturally detract from or even destroy such structures."

Humanity at Work
Scott and Harker

Many people may forget the fopar the US administration made just after 911. The name they initially gave their retribution was "Operation Infinite Justice".

I could not believe my ears when I heard it. Only 'God' is capable of administering Infinite Justice, so these people were obviously totally convinced that either God was on their side, or worse (ultimate narcissism) - They Are God.

It took them a few days to fathom that there were few names they could have chosen that were more likely to piss off people of every other religous persuasion on the planet. It was then changed. But what rocket scientist thinks this stuff up, and what are the other rocket scientists thinking where they fail to see the incredible egocentricity inherent in this stuff.

Every war-monger in history was convinced God was on his side, and/or used that strategy to get long lines of cannon fodder ready to lay down their lives. As far back as the crusades history woud now suggest the real issue was money - in that case domination of trade routes. It was the God of Money and Power that was the driver, not the God of Theology.

So, let me reflect to you (probably speaking to the converted I know), that as an outsider looking in, your President and the mindset of the NeoConserves around him, scare the hell out of many US observers (in case the Murdock media hadn't told you. Sorry, not one of our better exports! :rolleyes: PS: I am an Aussie)

What is as worrying is that Moism is right there behind him. It appears the only time Utard didn't back the Conservative Sabre-Rattling Right, was when they worked out that silos in Utard and Arizona were going to result the them being a prime nuke target. Where was their faith? Surely Temple Garments were Nuke Proof! :cool:

[peter_mary]

So, let me reflect to you (probably speaking to the converted I know), that as an outsider looking in, your President and the mindset of the NeoConserves around him, scare the hell out of many US observers (in case the Murdock media hadn't told you. Sorry, not one of our better exports! :rolleyes: PS: I am an Aussie)

I'm glad you chimed in. It scares the hell out of me, too!

What is as worrying is that Moism is right there behind him. It appears the only time Utard didn't back the Conservative Sabre-Rattling Right, was when they worked out that silos in Utard and Arizona were going to result the them being a prime nuke target. Where was their faith? Surely Temple Garments were Nuke Proof!

I read an on-line news article just today that said that 71% of Utah voted for Bush, and 90% of the Mormon Utah vote was for Bush. Just a little trivia for ya!

On another note, I very much appreciated this quote from Scott and Harker:

"The reason 'spiritual' is used here in relation to the dimension that distinguishes the human from the animal. We believe that human beings have a 'spiritual' dimension in that (i) they are capable of self-consciousness, and (ii) they are capable of making a metaphysical paradigm shift from a core motive of competitive survival (FEAR) to a core motive of collective survival (LOVE). Such a paradigm shift, we believe, is the uniquely human choice that represents the great divide between those whose lives naturally contribute to the building up of the dynamic structures that provide for shared existence, and those whose lives naturally detract from or even destroy such structures."

Humanity at Work
Scott and Harker

The tension between Love and Fear could probably be considered in the analysis of most human frailties and faults. Thanks for sharing this!

Paul