L Tom Perry talks about the 12

[helemon]

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon352.htm
The following were notes taken by a friend's sister at a recent stake
conference (3/21). The visiting apostle was L. Tom Perry.
Here are her notes.
__________________________________________________ _______

Notes from Kuna Idaho Stake Conference

March 21, 2004

L. Tom Perry

In our present Council of the 12 Apostles, there has been no change in nine
years. This is the longest in the history of the Church that the same 12
apostles have served together. We asked President Hinckley why this is so
and he said our wisdom is needed to stand up against the great changes in
the world.

President Packer is the most inspirational spiritual man I've ever had the
opportunity to work with. He also can get very irate and it is my job to
kick him in the shins if he gets too irate. Next time you see him, ask him
to lift his pant legs so you can see my kick marks on his shins!

Elder Haight is stronger today than he has been in a long time. We fully
expected him to die last July. His daughter called us and told us the
doctors gave him just days to live. But he rallied and he now has a
physical therapist that comes to his house every day and works with him. I
visited him in his apartment and he showed me that he walks around his table
12 times, then he walks around his couch 12 times, then he walks a circuit
in his apartment. He said, "Anything the physical therapist asks me to do,
I do twice!" He comes to our council meetings and contributes to each one.
We even plan on him speaking for General Conference for 5 minutes-we hope!
He can't see well and he doesn't see the teleprompter so we don't know what
he will say or how long he will go.

Elder Maxwell's life has been preserved in a most remarkable way. He has
been preserved to bless us with that brilliant mind of his. Oh the jewels
that come out of Elder Maxwell!

Elder Nelson is the physician to the First Presidency and to the Twelve.
If we have an ailment we can talk to him about it. He is our doctor. He
still makes hospital rounds. He is the greatest ambassador we have because
he has a reputation all over the world. He can go anywhere in the world and
people know and respect him because of his great pioneering work in heart
surgery.

Elder Ballard is our used car salesman! He is our enthusiastic leader of
the missionary department. He is telling our missionaries, "Stop being
robots! Learn how to teach by the Spirit!" He has convinced President
Hinckley to raise the bar. Now you have to qualify for a mission. We
should raise the bar in our own activities.

Elder Scott is our nuclear scientist. He is a computer genius. He helps
us all keep our computers working right. He has the talent of looking to
the future.

Elder Hales is our international businessman. He was in charge of the
international sales of all the men's shaving products and the like for a
large international area (I think in the orient). He has a great financial
talent. He sits on committees with our First Presidency.

Oh, I forgot Elder Oaks! Well, he's away! No wonder I should forget. He
is our judge. He is very detailed like an attorney. Nothing escapes his
mind. I send him a message and replies back correcting my voice-mail! He
understands the law and principles. He is our great public relations man.
He understands the needs of the Church.

Elder Holland is our great student. President of a university or two. He
is an excellent writer. Whenever there is a difficult assignment in that
way, he gets the assignment to do the writing for it.

Elder Eyring . . . I wish someone could explain him to me! He gives me a
headache with that brilliant mind of his! When we travel together he sits
up front next to the driver and pops questions, trying to understand
everyone and everything around him.

Each of us is wonderfully different but as a combination as a whole we make
a wonderful high council.

We are certain to follow the order of the Church in our meetings and in
all we do. This has been clearly established. For example, I would never
think of going through a door before Elder Packer. He is the President of
our Council. It is the President of the Council who selects the President
of the Church. Is there any other way the Lord controls who he selects as a
prophet? If He doesn't want an apostle to preside, He who controls life and
death calls him home.

Every week the Cummings Chocolate people send us a 3 lb. box of chocolates.
In our meeting, we follow our order and President Packer picks first, then I
choose, and so on. Poor Elder Eyring has never had a light chocolate yet!
Perhaps if he lives long enough!!!

[meinmachine]

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon352.htm

Sob...Sob... wipe a tear...I just want to say that this man has further strengthened my testimony that the church IS NOT TRUE and that it has affirmed my thoughts that these kindly old men are in charge of a large business cult. Thanks!

"Oh, that I could have a light chocolate...." newest member of the 12.

[helemon]

Sob...Sob... wipe a tear...I just want to say that this man has further strengthened my testimony that the church IS NOT TRUE and that it has affirmed my thoughts that these kindly old men are in charge of a large business cult. Thanks!

"Oh, that I could have a light chocolate...." newest member of the 12.

Apparently Elder Perry got in a bit of trouble for this talk and how he described some of the other apostles. Packard probably didn't care for the shin kicking comment and Ballards "used car salesman" label probably seemed a little less than dignified. According to a poster on RfM, during Perry's latest visit to Norway he simply read the first presidencies message from the Ensign. So I guess he is now just a glorified home teacher?

[free thinker]

Loud Laughter

I have to laugh at how serious these guys take themselves. :D


Light Mindedness

The twelve Pot- Holes!! ;)


Evil Speaking of the lords anointed.

Most of these men know the truth about the church, but continue to promulgate it as the kingdom of god on earth. This is duplicitous of course. :mad:



free thinker

[Born Free]

Good to hear some things never change! :duh

Which century do these cretins live in?

Daryl

[why me]

I remember L.Tom Perry from a talk that he gave in Montana in 1974. He was just made an apostle at that time. I remember he had a very strong voice that was very impressive. He also had a sense of humor. I am sure that this talk had some of his humor in it. It sounds to me that if that if this talk was said with the right deameanor the people in the audience would be laughing at what he said. I can understand the sharing of notes...most might not be accurate and end up on exmormon.org for interpretation and lead people away from the church...of course they are just notes afterall. I don't see all the fuss here...maybe I have missed something...but in truth, his talk did end up on exmo.org from someone's notetaking... :) But can notes always be relied on....?

[peter_mary]

...and interestingly, this particular little tidbit got shuffled around the internet a LOT a few years back. It resulted in a mandate from Church HQ being read from the pulpit that put members on notice that they were NOT to take notes such as these, and they were NOT to post them on the internet, because they had NOT been correlated.

I kid you not.

The funny thing is, it was FAITHFUL members who were passing this around as FAITH promoting, because they found it so heartwarming to see their leaders as human beings! And then those same "human beings" turn around and impose yet one more restriction on the membership, because apparently they don't WANT to be perceived as anything less than gods themselves.

It was one more nudge out the door for me... :duh

Peter_Mary

[why me]

...and interestingly, this particular little tidbit got shuffled around the internet a LOT a few years back. It resulted in a mandate from Church HQ being read from the pulpit that put members on notice that they were NOT to take notes such as these, and they were NOT to post them on the internet, because they had NOT been correlated.

I kid you not.

The funny thing is, it was FAITHFUL members who were passing this around as FAITH promoting, because they found it so heartwarming to see their leaders as human beings! And then those same "human beings" turn around and impose yet one more restriction on the membership, because apparently they don't WANT to be perceived as anything less than gods themselves.

It was one more nudge out the door for me... :duh

Peter_Mary
I think however, this would be really difficult to enforce. It does seem silly really. Of course, notes are not reliable sources of information but I really cannot see someone in stake conference confiscating someone's notes. That would cause a stir. But who knows maybe it happens but I doubt it. There must be a reason for this because in truth anyone can post notes on the internet especially if the intent is to disparage a GA's talk. Of course, there may be a legal connotation behind this kind of request for those who would disparage a GA's talk through print or the internet.

[peter_mary]

I think however, this would be really difficult to enforce. It does seem silly really. Of course, notes are not reliable sources of information but I really cannot see someone in stake conference confiscating someone's notes. That would cause a stir. But who knows maybe it happens but I doubt it. There must be a reason for this because in truth anyone can post notes on the internet especially if the intent is to disparage a GA's talk. Of course, there may be a legal connotation behind this kind of request for those who would disparage a GA's talk through print or the internet.

Exactly. And that's part of the point. The Church burdens folks with all kinds of "have-tos" and then relies on guilt and squeeling neighbors to ferret out the rule-breakers.

Apparently another one of these HQ mandates has been recently reiterated over the pulpit...namely the prohibition against "gathering together in study or discussion groups." A woman I know who is struggling as we speak to extract herself from Mormonism mentioned that she heard this (for the first time) as a letter read from her Bishop at Sacrament just a few short months ago. I recall hearing this SAME admonition 15-18 years ago while we were in school. Point is, the Church apparently is NOT able to enforce it well, or they wouldn't have to keep beating that drum, yet they want to persist in telling people how to live their lives.

They also didn't have peepers watching for couples having oral sex, either, but they were happy to tell you not to do it.

In a way, that would seem to me to be one of the hallmarks of controlling organizations...the willingness and desire to attempt to control EVERYTHING, including that which they can't. And what do we know about controlling spouses? Disfunctional. Controlling parents? Disfunctional. Controlling bosses? Disfunctional. Controlling relationships are ALWAYS disfunctional, and the Church (along with others...most notably Islam) seems to believe that controlling is the only way to get people to heaven.

Now let's review Satan's plan...ah yes...take away their free agency so that they have no choice but to get to heaven. In other words...

...control them.

Hell...that's not Satan's plan, that's the Mormons' plan! :duh

Peter_Mary

[miss taken]

Actually, as soon as I read this (what L Perry said is quite interesting - or should I say what he is quoted as saying!!) the first thing I thought of, in relation to the Brethren's response to it, was.....................

THE ROYAL FAMILY!!!

Over here in the UK, to keep the whole thing going (which the queen has done greatly) they have to keep up a mystique of their devising and creation.

It's all about mystique. You have to keep up the mystique. The mystique may or may not be accurate, but that's what you have to keep up, if you want the organisation (which the royal family is) to run smoothly, and keep those subjects in subjugation!!!

Mary

[helemon]

Apparently another one of these HQ mandates has been recently reiterated over the pulpit...namely the prohibition against "gathering together in study or discussion groups." A woman I know who is struggling as we speak to extract herself from Mormonism mentioned that she heard this (for the first time) as a letter read from her Bishop at Sacrament just a few short months ago. I recall hearing this SAME admonition 15-18 years ago while we were in school. Point is, the Church apparently is NOT able to enforce it well, or they wouldn't have to keep beating that drum, yet they want to persist in telling people how to live their lives.


How in the hell is a Mormon going to save the constitution when they don't believe in freedom of assembly, freedom of speech, freedom of worship (why else would they be trying so hard to pull people away from other religions), or freedom of the press (demonstrated by JS's actions and the church's attempts to purchase the Trib in SLC).

[helemon]

if you want the organisation (which the royal family is) to run smoothly, and keep those subjects in subjugation!!!

Mary

and the tax dollars rolling in.

[peter_mary]

How in the hell is a Mormon going to save the constitution when they don't believe in freedom of assembly, freedom of speech, freedom of worship (why else would they be trying so hard to pull people away from other religions), or freedom of the press (demonstrated by JS's actions and the church's attempts to purchase the Trib in SLC).

Well, perhaps you "save it" from itself. The problems are inherent, and by re-writing the troublesome thing, you work out some of the "kinks" that the founding fathers just didn't think of. That pesky bill of rights has been nothing but trouble for the Church for the past 150 years. Isn't it time to change that rascal? Bow your head and say, "Yes."

:rolleyes:

This actually raises an interesting point, and I'd LOVE to hear our non-US forum members chime in on this.

Isn't this just one of the most ethnocentric teachings of the Church? Why do members from around the world continue to put up with the idea that of all the countries, all the races, all the governments, that God likes the white Republicans of the United States the best, and that the outcome of the world depends on the outcome of the United States? I'm guessing there are members all over the world that would frankly welcome a little humility on the part of the United States. Clearly, the Priesthood's ultimate objective in the known UNIVERSE is to save the Constitution of the United States, by which it can then pursue it's OWN doctrine of world dominion... Apparently, the rest of you are just a side-show to what is to happen here in the good ol' US of A.

Just wondering...

Peter_Mary

[Born Free]

<snip>

:rolleyes:

This actually raises an interesting point, and I'd LOVE to hear our non-US forum members chime in on this.

Isn't this just one of the most ethnocentric teachings of the Church? Why do members from around the world continue to put up with the idea that of all the countries, all the races, all the governments, that God likes the white Republicans of the United States the best, and that the outcome of the world depends on the outcome of the United States? I'm guessing there are members all over the world that would frankly welcome a little humility on the part of the United States. Clearly, the Priesthood's ultimate objective in the known UNIVERSE is to save the Constitution of the United States, by which it can then pursue it's OWN doctrine of world dominion... Apparently, the rest of you are just a side-show to what is to happen here in the good ol' US of A.

Just wondering...

Peter_Mary

PM,

Just last Friday Philip Adams on Radio National interviewed Clyde Prestowitz (see below) and his remarks on US foreign debt suggest very strongly that the US' trajectory is unsustainable.

Summary
A discussion with U.S. economist and author, Clyde Prestowitz, about what he sees as the imminent tipping point for American economic power. The point at which he says global wealth will shift from West to East.

A set of graphic facts illustrates the economic dominance, and appetite, of the United States today.

With just 5% of the world’s population, the U.S. produces almost a third of the world’s output. And it consumes even more - nearly half of everything the world produces.

American English is the language of world trade, and the U.S. dollar is the currency.

American entrepreneurial dominance and innovation has fuelled the globalised economy, and so far globalisation has also confirmed a core American belief - that helping the rest of the world get rich is good for America.

The recent entry of three billion new capitalists into the market place – from China, India and the former Soviet Union – is generally viewed as great news for the United States’ economy, but Clyde Prestowitz believes it is a dangerous illusion.

I always find the Church's relationship with the Bill of Rights and Constitution quite amusing. When it suits the Church they are all gung-ho for it (True Patriots), but then the breeze changes, and they revert to being the marginalised, 'God-Chosen' elite fringe, kicking against 'the pricks' (pun intended).

Sadly, as an outsider, I do observe the US (collectively) ignorant of history (even its own), ignorant of cultural diversity (a shopping trip to the mall is a cultural excursion), oblivious that great civilisations have risen only to decay for all of recorded history, and that the US will inevitably be just another in the long list.

Sadly, I believe many of Joseph Smith's remarks regarding US government and the Constitution were well rooted in his narcissistic personality disorder, from where all the world was either his for him to use, or an 'enemy' out to pursue him personally.

This is close to a recent fascination of mine, that I have written briefly of before.

All Christians get all excited by the idea that they can, if they follow the Rules, be adopted into the "Tribe of Israel' and found acceptable before an Isrealite God, the God of a people who probably account for less than 1% of the earths population. That is not to mention that a Jewish lad pissed off some of his elders and the ruling foreign invaders and got nailed to a cross for his troubles, from whence he was able to become the great mediator between us mere mortals and Mk 2 of this Isrealite God.

Of course, when one stops and looks at that bizarre scenario, it becomes quickly apparent that it is all about elitism, and who is more into elitism than ruling class conservatives - conservatives who will forever want to rewrite the narrative to justify their centrality in power. And conservatives don't come much more elitist, and conservative, and power-anxious than the ones who call Utah their home, and site of the 2nd Jerusalem.

(Now in another epistle, I will tell you of the 3rd Jerasuleum, which will be in northern New South Wales (semi-trolical, whale frequented coastal hippy territory, permantly fogged in a cloud of hooch), where the Heavenly Choir will be accompanied by Peter Garret and a section of didgeridoos!)

Daryl

[papa]

"Apparently, the rest of you are just a side-show to what is to happen here in the good ol' US of A."

yes this is amazing to me also. How do members outside the republican US stand the GA's ethnocentric posturing?

Especially now that the posture includes open armed assault against their countries and families by good TBM soldiers armed to the teeth?

Even the US tbm's should be able to see that the concept of "world church" is a lot of hooey, as the GA's push the Bush war handcart as hard as they are able.

Oh wait--that's right, TSCC isn't based on the teachings of Jebus after all, it's based on Smith and Rigdon's "Salt Sermon".

Daryl, yer right mate, Northern NSW IS the CK