I am sorry.

[john]

I am sorry that some you have chosen this path, please know that you can repent and come back to the truth. I know that the LDS church is true, and I hope that this message reaches out to one among you.

[james]

I have been doing a lot of thinking lately about my choice to leave mormonism. This post has confirmed my feelings that I have made the wrong move. My life was better in the church. And I'm looking forward to rejoining, and regaining a better life.

Thankyou john...whoever you are

[cactus jack]

I don't come to your mormon sites and say crap, so you can try to have the same respect for this site.

I left because no god would condone doing to it's people what I have seen and experienced the LDS doing to it's own. Is THAT your testimony? You know the word is true because they didn't persecute you yet? Gee, why does that sound so Hitlerish?

[Jeff_Ricks]

I am sorry that some you have chosen this path, please know that you can repent and come back to the truth. I know that the LDS church is true, and I hope that this message reaches out to one among you.
John, I am glad I reached a point in my life where I could be objective about my assessment of the Church and now I am very much at piece with my choice to leave. Life has been much better for me in every respect since I left 13 or so years ago. I could never again be a Mormon because I know from the bottom of my heart that the Church is not true. Please know that at any time you too can open your mind and honestly and objectively take a look at the Church, as we have done, and see it as it really is, but until then I can understand why you would stay and think that you probably should stay.

Jeff Ricks

[peter_mary]

I notice James and John have sought to save our souls, but I can't help but wonder where Peter is? I assume he's busy in New Orleans or something, engaging in meaningful work?

***sigh***

Peter_Mary (no, not THAT Peter...or THAT Mary, either!)

[Jeff_Ricks]

I am sorry that some you have chosen this path, please know that you can repent and come back to the truth. I know that the LDS church is true, and I hope that this message reaches out to one among you.
I need to point out that John and James are the same person. I just found out that both posts were sent from the same IP address, meaning from the very same computer.

John/James, I'm sorry that you feel you have to be so deceptive. It's sad. It's funny how the Church does the same thing. Somehow you and they justify lying and do it in the name of truth and morality. So sad.

Jeff

[peter_mary]

By the way, lest anyone reading this be persuaded to actually BELIEVE this thread, I did a tiny bit of snooping into the join date of dear John and James (referenced above) and find it interesting that they both joined TODAY. I believe they are THE SAME PERSON!

Me thinks we have a multiple personality disordered missionary on our forum, and as I mentioned above, I'm just dying to hear from Peter next, or perhaps Samual the Lamanite? Or Nephi himself?

Truthfully boys (boy), I'm a whole hell of a lot more interested in hearing you actually say something other than THIS tripe! Do better, I beg you! :D

::grabs beer and waits::

Peter_Mary

::chirping crickets::

[peter_mary]

I need to point out that John and James are the same person. I just found out that both posts were sent from the same IP address, meaning from the very same computer.

John/James, I'm sorry that you feel you have to be so deceptive. It's sad. It's funny how the Church does the same thing. Somehow you and they justify lying and do it in the name of truth and morality. So sad.

Jeff

HEY! What are you doing snooping around my precinct? Dis' here's my gig!

Oh, wait...it's YOUR gig...my appologies...

:D

Now let's hope that James/John comes back and plays, 'cause this isn't gonna be fun for much longer...

Peter_Mary

[free thinker]

This makes me laugh. I just love these hit and run mo's! :D James and John. :D Too funny!


free thinker

[Jeff_Ricks]

HEY! What are you doing snooping around my precinct? Dis' here's my gig!

Oh, wait...it's YOUR gig...my appologies...

:D

Now let's hope that James/John comes back and plays, 'cause this isn't gonna be fun for much longer...

Peter_Mary
Hey, Peter_Mary, looks like this smelled fishy to both of us, and you found out without access to the IP address information! You get an A+! I get a pat on the back. ;)

Jeff

[Jeff_Ricks]

This makes me laugh. I just love these hit and run mo's! :D James and John. :D Too funny!

free thinker
I happen to know the guys real name too because he entered it into our database... twice. He was careful to use two different email accounts for James and John, but he used his real name in both email address names. But I'll keep that information to myself because our policy is to preserve anonymity and unlike this guy we intend to stick to our person moral code.

Jeff

[peter_mary]

You know, I've been thinking about what Brother James and Brother John have suggested in their posts above, and I've been overwhelmed with a feeling of love, compassion, and divine understanding of the torments of my soul.

Brother John has intimated that he is truly "sorry" that I have "chosen this path," for he knows, no doubt from personal experience and revelation that I am an evil-doer, and must needs repent, as he has so lovingly encouraged me to do. How grateful I am for his tender sorrow on my behalf, and for the piercing divine insight into the blackness of my wicked, wicked soul. I only hope that with faith and obedience, I too, can be as righteous ad brother John.

Further, because Brother John "knows" the Church is true, it must be! Why would he deceive me? He has by-passed the need for objective evidence, and transcended the mortal need for proof, and stands firm in his knowledge of the unknowable, and I stand ashamed that I have been so blinded by the craftiness of Satan, who would have me believe that I "couldn't know" that which is ineffable. Brother John's knowledge, not founded on the so-called learning of the so-called scientists and intellectuals (I spit in their general direction, John, just like you!), but rather is found in that holy space you enter when you close your eyes, and follow blindly the meanderings of a few old men who probably care about you, provided you keep the corporation liquid by paying a generous tithe. Then, and ONLY then, can you know as Brother John. I see that now, and I am embarrased. I only hope I can aspire to such humble greatness.

And then, there is Brother James! A poor, lost, wandering soul, in anguish regarding his past sinful decision to leave the Mormon Church! Like me, he but had to read the Godly and inspired words of Brother John, and lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he could see the error of his ways! What a glorious day for Brother James and me!

Having seen my transgression, and being appropriately ashamed, I repent of all that I have ever thought, ever read, ever considered in a new light. I deny any ideas I might have ever conceived on my own, and cast them aside for the words of a few old men and the words of an ancient book written by Jewish elitists, coupled with a more perfect book penned by white Native Americans. I hereby close my eyes. I hereby close my ears. I burn my books, shutter my brain and turn off the lights.

So that I, too, may be as Brother John and Brother James.

Good night,

Peter_Mary

[john]

This time the title of my post is what it says. I am sorry that I have offended you. And I will no longer be posting on this site, I am not sure what I was thinking, after all "contention is of the devil" no matter what your faith. I should respect your decision to leave the LDS church, and respect your beliefs. Once again I am sorry.

[Jeff_Ricks]

This time the title of my post is what it says. I am sorry that I have offended you. And I will no longer be posting on this site, I am not sure what I was thinking, after all "contention is of the devil" no matter what your faith. I should respect your decision to leave the LDS church, and respect your beliefs. Once again I am sorry.
John,

Thank you for your apology. However, sticking out like a sore thumb is the fact that your apology completely ignores that you were being deceptive and frankly, hypocritical in what you attempted to do.

Jeff

[helemon]

This time the title of my post is what it says. I am sorry that I have offended you. And I will no longer be posting on this site, I am not sure what I was thinking, after all "contention is of the devil" no matter what your faith. I should respect your decision to leave the LDS church, and respect your beliefs. Once again I am sorry.

Don't you just love that phrase: "contention is of the devil." What a powerful mind f*ck that statement is. It basically tells the followers you have no right to question what we tell you because doing so is contentious and that is of the devil so doing so would be sinful.

The only way a group of people can maintain some semblance of truth or discover the truth is by allowing people to ask questions and challenge statements that others give them rather than being unquestioningly submissive. You should try it sometime John/James and next time bring Peter along as well and maybe Michael, Jehovah and Elohim if they aren't busy.

[darkslider]

Contention or Ignorance?

It is not uncommon for Latter-day Saints to accuse people of having a "spirit of contention" when their doctrinal inconsistencies are being discussed. Such a rebuke is meant to make it appear that the person is somehow not exhibiting a Christ-like attitude and/or not playing fair.

Being accused of being contentious should be taken seriously only if you really are. If so, kindly apologize. If you feel this label has been unjustifiably used, you might ask how he defines contention and then show him what Jude states in verse 3.

Certainly no person should want to appear as mean-spirited; however, we are commanded in Jude 3 to earnestly contend for the faith. Some Mormons assume that Christ never intended for us to question anyone’s religious beliefs. In such situations you might politely remind him that both Jesus and His disciples often made it a point to challenge those they felt had embraced false teachings.

Can we contend without being contentious? I think so.

We are given some basic rules as to how to conduct ourselves when conversing with those with whom we disagree. In Colossians 4:6 Paul tells us that we are to present our message with grace, seasoned with salt. This is an interesting illustration for salt does have a tendency to sting when poured into an open wound. When we present Gospel truths into the wound of doctrinal error, it does tend to be uncomfortable. Because of this we must be sensitive to the fact that the Mormon may be especially defensive. However, bear in mind that declaring the truth, in and of itself, is not biblically wrong.

In 1 Peter 3:15-16 we are told that we should be ready to give an answer regarding what we believe, but it must be done with gentleness and respect (or meekness and fear in the KJV). Admittedly, this can be difficult since some Mormons seem to feel that these passages do not refer to them. Even though Mormon leaders such as M. Russell Ballard said members should be "kind and gentle in our conversations as we express our convictions and feelings," some Mormons ignore this advice and choose to go out of their way to be rude and offensive. While some Mormons purposely use this behavior as a means of absolving themselves of a reasonable response, we must not allow such intimidation tactics to divert our attention away from the topic at hand.

In some cases using their own line can bring some civility back to the conversation. Letting an abusive Mormon know that he has "a spirit of contention" (be sure you smile when you say it) sometimes opens the door for a more meaningful dialogue.

[miss taken]

Thanks for the apology John.
That took guts.

[Born Free]

I need to point out that John and James are the same person. I just found out that both posts were sent from the same IP address, meaning from the very same computer.

John/James, I'm sorry that you feel you have to be so deceptive. It's sad. It's funny how the Church does the same thing. Somehow you and they justify lying and do it in the name of truth and morality. So sad.

Jeff

I find that a bit like many Mormons I know, actually Jeff, (and John and James).

Keep rehashing the same mind-numbing stuff until you split off, into two (or more) parts, who then agree with each other (surprise, surprise!), and convince themselves they are a majority. :duh

Bit sad really. :(

Ah, whatever it takes to keep you away from thinking, and reading for yourself, I guess. :eek:

Daryl

[hamar]

Sorry I arrived at the discussion a little late. John/James, hope you stick around and chat with us awhile. Thanks for the apology. I too thought all these folks were lost souls...for about 30 years. Now I are one, and very happy too, I might add. My wife included.
I enjoyed all the responses, especially the comments by Darkslider. Thanks everyone.

John/James, ya'll come back.

[Jeff_Ricks]

John,

Thank you for your apology. However, sticking out like a sore thumb is the fact that your apology completely ignores that you were being deceptive and frankly, hypocritical in what you attempted to do.

Jeff
Sometime after I went to bed last night I received a decent apology from the guy in an email and I responded by accepting his apology when I read it this morning. He didn't give me permission to publish here so I better not. If he wants me to I will.

Jeff

[miss taken]

Sometime after I went to bed last night I received a decent apology from the guy in an email and I responded by accepting his apology when I read it this morning. He didn't give me permission to publish here so I better not. If he wants me to I will.

Jeff

He seems a pretty decent fellow to me Jeff, I don't know many people who would actually come back and say sorry...Hats off to him..

Mary

[why me]

I am sure that John means well. He just has some concern for our welfare. And I suppose that we should all be concerned about eachothers welfare on this earth. John showed his concern by posting what he did. Thanks john for your concern....I wish you all the best in this life. Take care! :)

[miss taken]

I am sure that John means well. He just has some concern for our welfare. And I suppose that we should all be concerned about eachothers welfare on this earth. John showed his concern by posting what he did. Thanks john for your concern....I wish you all the best in this life. Take care! :)

Nah, I wouldn't go that far Why me...John was suffering from righteous indignation. He was being pompous, dishonest and judgemental.

What he did have the decency to do, was recognise it, and apologise. I admire him for saying sorry, not for his original post which was designed purely to stir up contention and to appear religiously superior, and he knows it.

[why me]

Nah, I wouldn't go that far Why me...John was suffering from righteous indignation. He was being pompous, dishonest and judgemental.

What he did have the decency to do, was recognise it, and apologise. I admire him for saying sorry, not for his original post which was designed purely to stir up contention and to appear religiously superior, and he knows it.
I read his post as some guy who was rather humble and concerned about the path we have all chosen. I didn't see any hostility in it. I am not sure if he would have applogized if he was feeling righteous, pompous etc. But of course only john can know for sure. His post was so short and brief that he just sounded like a guy who wanted to post a short renewed testimony for all of us to read. Why would a pompous guy apologize?

[miss taken]

I read his post as some guy who was rather humble and concerned about the path we have all chosen. I didn't see any hostility in it. I am not sure if he would have applogized if he was feeling righteous, pompous etc. But of course only john can know for sure. His post was so short and brief that he just sounded like a guy who wanted to post a short renewed testimony for all of us to read. Why would a pompous guy apologize?

Nah,, we're gonna have to disagree on this one Why me.
If the guy had left it at the first post, which I am sorry, was pompous and arrogant then maybe okay, but he then went in for deception to top it off....

He was being duplicitious? and he knew it...
If he was honourable, he would do what Flotsam and other 'active' members do on this board, and that is to have a reasoned discussion. He's as bad as the EV's on the FAIR boards who go in preaching hellfire and damnation, and we all know how they are viewed by LDS..

Give me a break. :)

[Jeff_Ricks]

I read his post as some guy who was rather humble and concerned about the path we have all chosen. I didn't see any hostility in it. I am not sure if he would have applogized if he was feeling righteous, pompous etc. But of course only john can know for sure. His post was so short and brief that he just sounded like a guy who wanted to post a short renewed testimony for all of us to read. Why would a pompous guy apologize?
Why me, I'm wondering if you missed that he posted as both John and as James responding to John? In other words, he was lying to us while calling us to repentance. Did you not notice that part of the thread?

Jeff

[helemon]

I read his post as some guy who was rather humble and concerned about the path we have all chosen. I didn't see any hostility in it. I am not sure if he would have applogized if he was feeling righteous, pompous etc. But of course only john can know for sure. His post was so short and brief that he just sounded like a guy who wanted to post a short renewed testimony for all of us to read. Why would a pompous guy apologize?

I read his post as some young kid, who hasn't bothered to look at why we left, trying to be clever by calling us to repentence and then making it look like his message had been divinely inspired to touch the life of someone on the board. I don't think very many of us fell for the trick. I like PM thought it was a big joke as soon as I read the first two posts. If John/James was a mature person he would try to engage us in a discussion of why we feel the way we do about the church not pull a sophmoric spoof.

I am glad he has enough human emotion that he recognized that it was a stupid, and rude stunt and apologized. Perhaps he will come back and talk with us more openly about his questions and feelings. I wonder if he has had someone close to him leave the church and this is his way of trying to adress those feelings of loss and sadness that the church encourages members to feel about people who leave the fold. One thing is for sure he has the prophet trick down pat. If you want to look inspired by God be sure there is someone (even if it is yourself) to confirm the revelation. :slap:

[peter_mary]

I truly appreciate, truly, truly, truly, the fact that you e-mailed Jeff and appologized. Not even that it was necessary, because this board is tough with broad shoulders, so to speak, but because you felt bad for having propagated a deception.

You probably noticed you got a pretty smart-assed response from me. Well, there's a reason. You see, it's not in any way useful to people to lob a turd like yours on the table, and hope that it suddenly makes a huge difference in people's lives. What I need you to understand is that when you speak of matters of faith, you are dealing with real people's lives. If you are a leader in your ward, you need to understand that. You need to understand that when you are working closely with actual human beings that you actually do damage when you dismiss their real, human issues with the wave of the magic "the Church is true" wand.

When you come here, and believe it or not, you are welcome here, you need to understand that behind the posts, behind the stories, behind the smilies and the rants, the celebrating and the venting, there are hundreds of real people, with real experiences, real ideas, real learning, real exploration, and all of it is necessarily different from yours. There is real pain, real suffering, real grief, coupled with real learning, real thinking, real awareness, and real happiness, all of which contributes to the complex, interesting, and beautiful lives of real people.

Church people damage others when they discount that real, human experience. On the other hand, when they embrace that human experience, Church people can actually do a tremendous amount of good. Bishops, for instance, who roll up their sleeves and engage with people, regardless of their circumstances, can touch lives for good. Truth is, human beings are social creatures, and we respond positively to genuine caring and concern. But only if there is an effort to understand. If, on the other hand, we perceive only judgement rather than understanding, then we reject outright that false message of concern.

Especially if you insist on waving the magic wand, all while speaking the magic words so loudly that you can't hear the real, human responses.

So that smart-assed response you got from me was intended to be a wake-up call. Come and talk, come and share your own story, but understand that your story is simply that...YOUR story. Mine is different...please don't disregard it with a patronizing brush-off. Talk to me, share with me, engage with me, but don't marginalize me or you'll get nothing but "heat" in response.

Understand that I don't need your forgiveness, your invitation to repent or your judgement. Likewise, I don't need you to see the world or the Church as I do. I don't need to convince you of "the error of your ways". Your journey is something to which you are entitled. All I ask is that you consider the possibility that others have had different, meaningful, significant experiences from yours, and invite you to discuss that with us.

If you can't, or don't want to, that's your choice. But those of us here are not asking you to leave, only asking you to open your eyes and realize that we are living, breathing, vibrant, contributing human beings, and not just a "bunch of apostates." Treat us as people, and you will be treated likewise. Marginalize us, and expect the same. (Well, from this old reprobate, anyway.)

There's a lesson in there for all of us. We diminish ourselves whenever we define people as "other than us" by virtue of their differences. We grow as we recognize that we are all one, exploring the myriads of nooks and crannies available in the universe. When we join with others in that exploration, we expand our horizons. When we disregard them, we narrow our horizons.

So John...feel free talk. A lot. Just resist the temptation to preach.

Peter_Mary

[cactus jack]

Jeff, Helemon, Peter_Mary, Free Thinker, Darkslider, Miss Taken, Born_Free, Hamar, & Why Me- I have to confess that you are more kind and gentle than I was. I'd rather burn the punk at the stake (and the stake center with him if I could), but I'm still grasping with my own stupidity when I thought I wanted to go back.

I reall do admire you guys for your warmth and kindness.

[silverfox]

OH. MY. GAWD. I can remember so clearly having the same mindset as John/James. I probably would have posted the same kind of PREDICTABLE post, too. And I just MAY have been just as deceptive.

So, again, many of us, Joh/James have been where you are. We have felt what you feel about us. We have experienced it all. Many of us were very devout Mormons. So we understand exactly where you are coming from. We understand your behavior - many of us were once guilty of it, too.

But we have realized the error in that kind of church encouraged behavior.

You are welcome to post here. Enter at your own risk. Like I said, we know where you are coming from. So don't think you have "one up on us". Ain't gonna happen.

[Born Free]

Jeff,

I just noticed that whilst John got New Member status in the system, James did not. How did that happen (assuming they are assigned by the software)?

Daryl

[admin]

Jeff,

I just noticed that whilst John got New Member status in the system, James did not. How did that happen (assuming they are assigned by the software)?

Daryl
Hmmmm.. good question! Maybe because both accounts have the same IP address but I'm not sure. It might be a bug in the software. In our database records both accounts have a New Member status. I don't know why it doesn't show up in Jame's post.

Jeff

[silverfox]

Nah, I wouldn't go that far Why me...John was suffering from righteous indignation. He was being pompous, dishonest and judgemental.

What he did have the decency to do, was recognise it, and apologise. I admire him for saying sorry, not for his original post which was designed purely to stir up contention and to appear religiously superior, and he knows it.

......Agreed.

[why me]

I truly appreciate, truly, truly, truly, the fact that you e-mailed Jeff and appologized. Not even that it was necessary, because this board is tough with broad shoulders, so to speak, but because you felt bad for having propagated a deception.

You probably noticed you got a pretty smart-assed response from me. Well, there's a reason. You see, it's not in any way useful to people to lob a turd like yours on the table, and hope that it suddenly makes a huge difference in people's lives. What I need you to understand is that when you speak of matters of faith, you are dealing with real people's lives. If you are a leader in your ward, you need to understand that. You need to understand that when you are working closely with actual human beings that you actually do damage when you dismiss their real, human issues with the wave of the magic "the Church is true" wand.

When you come here, and believe it or not, you are welcome here, you need to understand that behind the posts, behind the stories, behind the smilies and the rants, the celebrating and the venting, there are hundreds of real people, with real experiences, real ideas, real learning, real exploration, and all of it is necessarily different from yours. There is real pain, real suffering, real grief, coupled with real learning, real thinking, real awareness, and real happiness, all of which contributes to the complex, interesting, and beautiful lives of real people.

Church people damage others when they discount that real, human experience. On the other hand, when they embrace that human experience, Church people can actually do a tremendous amount of good. Bishops, for instance, who roll up their sleeves and engage with people, regardless of their circumstances, can touch lives for good. Truth is, human beings are social creatures, and we respond positively to genuine caring and concern. But only if there is an effort to understand. If, on the other hand, we perceive only judgement rather than understanding, then we reject outright that false message of concern.

Especially if you insist on waving the magic wand, all while speaking the magic words so loudly that you can't hear the real, human responses.

So that smart-assed response you got from me was intended to be a wake-up call. Come and talk, come and share your own story, but understand that your story is simply that...YOUR story. Mine is different...please don't disregard it with a patronizing brush-off. Talk to me, share with me, engage with me, but don't marginalize me or you'll get nothing but "heat" in response.

Understand that I don't need your forgiveness, your invitation to repent or your judgement. Likewise, I don't need you to see the world or the Church as I do. I don't need to convince you of "the error of your ways". Your journey is something to which you are entitled. All I ask is that you consider the possibility that others have had different, meaningful, significant experiences from yours, and invite you to discuss that with us.

If you can't, or don't want to, that's your choice. But those of us here are not asking you to leave, only asking you to open your eyes and realize that we are living, breathing, vibrant, contributing human beings, and not just a "bunch of apostates." Treat us as people, and you will be treated likewise. Marginalize us, and expect the same. (Well, from this old reprobate, anyway.)

There's a lesson in there for all of us. We diminish ourselves whenever we define people as "other than us" by virtue of their differences. We grow as we recognize that we are all one, exploring the myriads of nooks and crannies available in the universe. When we join with others in that exploration, we expand our horizons. When we disregard them, we narrow our horizons.

So John...feel free talk. A lot. Just resist the temptation to preach.

Peter_Mary
That's my point. The poor guy felt bad. To feel bad usually can show some decency as a human being. He felt true remorse which means that we should him redemption. Lets not judge unless we ourselves wished to be judged. Look at me...some judged me and were wrong in this forum :rolleyes: . We are not without our own mistakes...and yet Jeff is right too. He tried to pull himself off as james but this was only to bolster his own testimony and to help us see the 'error' of our ways. No...lets show postmo kindness to john and show by our example that we are a forgiving people willing to embrace all those who participate in our common humanity of purpose...to better the world through geniune acts of compassion...ahhh....say hitchhiker....pass that stuff this way will yeh...the first hit was pretty good.... :cool:

[silverfox]

That's my point. The poor guy felt bad. To feel bad usually can show some decency as a human being. He felt true remorse which means that we should him redemption. Lets not judge unless we ourselves wished to be judged. Look at me...some judged me and were wrong in this forum :rolleyes: . We are not without our own mistakes...and yet Jeff is right too. He tried to pull himself off as james but this was only to bolster his own testimony and to help us see the 'error' of our ways. No...lets show postmo kindness to john and show by our example that we are a forgiving people willing to embrace all those who participate in our common humanity of purpose...to better the world through geniune acts of compassion...ahhh....say hitchhiker....pass that stuff this way will yeh...the first hit was pretty good.... :cool:

I think I am beginning to understand you better, why_me. I guess for some it is easy to justify deception. For others in most cases it is not acceptable. I can better see now why some members can accept the church's justification in being deceptive, therefore, it is more difficult for them to leave????? Ahhhhh, who knows.

The manner in which this guy replied to himself is just, well, WEIRD, IMO. Trying to give himself validity? I don't understand why he would do that. Pretending to be a wayward soul who found value in his own post?

It was totally unnecessary. Yes, he apologized. There is value in that. But there is no reason for the deception.

[Born Free]

This time the title of my post is what it says. I am sorry that I have offended you. And I will no longer be posting on this site, I am not sure what I was thinking, after all "contention is of the devil" no matter what your faith. I should respect your decision to leave the LDS church, and respect your beliefs. Once again I am sorry.

Dear 'John',

One thing that might appear to separate us is that I increasingly see how "contention is of ME!".

"Contention is of the devil" is such a tempting, once-over-lightly back door that facilitates separating from reality. I invite you to feel the contention! I am sure many Mormons experience acute tension (interesting that we pronounce 'tention' in contention almost the same as we do tension - Dogzilla, what are their origins?) when they visit here.

We (the regular community here) don't or rarely do, but then most here own their responses/reactions as their own, not as something others are doing 'to them'; be that other people or 'Satan'.

I would go so far as to say 'To further & promote contention is childish (less skillful - thanks P_M); to sit with and explore your own contention is Divine!'.

Mormonism would teach you to dismiss the tension you experienced as you read here, dismiss your experience as "contention of the devil", then shut down and helter-skelter back inside a Mormon world-view. Then a big SIGH! "Ah, it is EVIL out there :eek: ; really scary how seductive and persuasive their evil arguments".

That something like your experience? How did I know that?

I have done that. Many here have done that. Many did it for too long, before we came to the realisation that we were big and ugly enough to critique the logic, that we trusted ourselves enough to weigh these things up for ourselves. Sure beats relying on some geriatrics to predigest all your diet for you!

So when you are ready, I would invite you to come back as you, confident and honest in who you really are and where you are at. We ain't all that scary, really! :)

And we do treat visiting Mos with respect and understanding, provided they engage from some reasonable foundation of integrity.

We have come to believe we deserve nothing less, and sometime soon I am sure you will too.

Daryl

[why me]

I think I am beginning to understand you better, why_me. I guess for some it is easy to justify deception. For others in most cases it is not acceptable. I can better see now why some members can accept the church's justification in being deceptive, therefore, it is more difficult for them to leave????? Ahhhhh, who knows.

The manner in which this guy replied to himself is just, well, WEIRD, IMO. Trying to give himself validity? I don't understand why he would do that. Pretending to be a wayward soul who found value in his own post?

It was totally unnecessary. Yes, he apologized. There is value in that. But there is no reason for the deception.
Well he tried to deceive us with his use of 'james' but it was such a feeble attempt that I had to feel sorry for him. I believe in empathy but until john comes back and clarifies his attitude I am afraid that we can only guess of his reasons and intentions. We all need some kind of validity I suppose...isn't this why many of us are here on this forum? So you think you understand me better? I hope so.... :)

[dogzilla]

<snip>
I invite you to feel the contention! I am sure many Mormons experience acute tension (interesting that we pronounce 'tention' in contention almost the same as we do tension - Dogzilla, what are their origins?) when they visit here.

<snip>

From the Online Etymology Dictionary:
tension
1533, "a stretched condition," from Middle French tension, from Latin tensionem (nom. tensio) "a stretching" (in Middle Latin "a struggle, contest"), from tensus, pp. of tendere "to stretch," from PIE base *ten- "stretch" (see tenet). The sense of "nervous strain" is first recorded 1763. The meaning "electromotive force" (in high-tension wires) is recorded from 1802.

contention
1382, from Old French contention, from Latin contentionem, from stem of contendere (see contend).

contend
1440, from Latin contendere "to stretch out, strive after," from com- intensive prefix + tendere "to stretch" (see tenet).

This post was brought to you by the letter "M" and the number "4."

[Born Free]

From the Online Etymology Dictionary:
tension
1533, "a stretched condition," from Middle French tension, from Latin tensionem (nom. tensio) "a stretching" (in Middle Latin "a struggle, contest"), from tensus, pp. of tendere "to stretch," from PIE base *ten- "stretch" (see tenet). The sense of "nervous strain" is first recorded 1763. The meaning "electromotive force" (in high-tension wires) is recorded from 1802.

contention
1382, from Old French contention, from Latin contentionem, from stem of contendere (see contend).

contend
1440, from Latin contendere "to stretch out, strive after," from com- intensive prefix + tendere "to stretch" (see tenet).

This post was brought to you by the letter "M" and the number "4."
Godzilla,

Aren't you a darling?

Not only have you shone light on this particular problem, you have given me a valuable addition to my bookmarks.

When I was in primary school in the 50s and 60s, we were still taught theg latin roots for words, and inspite of not being (then) a great lover of English, I loved seeing that there was an underlying structure and derived meaning to many words. To this day I can still recall many of those drummed in by rote. I have wanted to look many up over the years, and been at a loss, so you have provided me am absolute gem!

Thanks.

Daryl

[hamar]

Jeff, Helemon, Peter_Mary, Free Thinker, Darkslider, Miss Taken, Born_Free, Hamar, & Why Me- I have to confess that you are more kind and gentle than I was. I'd rather burn the punk at the stake (and the stake center with him if I could), but I'm still grasping with my own stupidity when I thought I wanted to go back.

I reall do admire you guys for your warmth and kindness.

I appreciate the kudos but really think my response was more thoughtful because of my tardiness in arriving on scene :p

Had I been here early on my response would have been more knee jerk and it wouldn't have likely been nearly as thoughtful and kind. I don't come here to experience that kind of BS.