Mo Changes You Would Like to Live to See

[silverfox]

What aspects of the Mo church would you like to see changed? (since the church seems to be making so many changes lately)

Here a few I will throw out there:

When my oldest daughter (24) was 8 I suggested the church implement Girl Scouts so that the girls had something equivilent to the boys. I received a very looooooooong lecture about how the role of the female ws to be in the home, mommies, wives, etc, etc and Girl Scouts promote careers a little too much for them. (I wonder if they still feel this way with so many single moms and young families on church welfare????)

Gay marriage - I would like to see the church change their stance here and NOT encourage someone who is gay marry someone who isn't just because that's what you are supposed to do traditionally. One of my hubby's best friends has fought (openly) being gay all his life. He recently, after 17 years of marriage gave in. left his wife and kids to live the life he was meant to live.

I have a very very very loooooong list but tag! you're it!

[Born Free]

What aspects of the Mo church would you like to see changed? (since the church seems to be making so many changes lately)

I have a very very very loooooong list but tag! you're it!

Silverfox,

When you bingle your car badly, the insurance assessors have to make a critical decision: It is economically viable to repair this vehicle?

To persist with the car metaphor, I would ask these questions:

The car compliance plate indicates it was originally stolen, and and has been fitted with a compliance plate to cover that,

The chassis is riddled with rust.

The headlights have non-genuine replacment lense, so any light it casts is poor, and poorly focused.

The windscreen has cracks, and produces severe vision problems when exposed to any strong light.

Numerous minors have been sexually abused in the vehicle, so it has a really bad energy about it.

Numerous adult women have been abused or coerced into doing things they strongly disliked.

The engine runs on leaded fuel, so is an environmental distaster.

Nader has campaigned against the vehicle as being of poor design and a safety distaster, but the manufacturer uses big PR funds to create demand and silence critics, including several former engineer employees. (Mind you they do have a special on strange looking fire-resistent clothing)

The car has fossilised on the bumper several problematic stickers - several in each category: Racist (scribbled across), anti-feminist, anti-gay, anti-sex, anti-native-american.

The windows have an unusual film on them, which lets little to no light in.

The indicators don't work, inspite that the car makes repeated changes of direction unexpectedly when being driven.

It is a manual with really bad clutch, so progress is limited and spasmodic. This is not assisted by a very stiff and sticky throttle.

Anyone want to make any additions?

Do I make my point of how I think the assessor should vote? Would you want to buy this vehicle if it passes muster?

Daryl

[stuckasamo]

I would love to see the whole damn cult fall apart so all the sheeple could have real lives and real brains that work in an indepentdent fashion.

When I was in church today the lady giving the lesson talked about how she didn't understand "why the three witnesses would apostasize from the church after having seen visions and angels!" Wake up, honey. All that should tell you is that Joseph Smith never saw what he says he saw, and that his friends were tired of playing his little game. I feel so bad for the Morons. I'll be leaving the flock shortly. :D

[Born Free]

I would love to see the whole damn cult fall apart so all the sheeple could have real lives and real brains that work in an indepentdent fashion.

When I was in church today the lady giving the lesson talked about how she didn't understand "why the three witnesses would apostasize from the church after having seen visions and angels!" Wake up, honey. All that should tell you is that Joseph Smith never saw what he says he saw, and that his friends were tired of playing his little game. I feel so bad for the Morons. I'll be leaving the flock shortly. :D

stuckasamo,

I am interested to see which are the bits other people get stuck on?

I struggled for years to leave and then for over a decade to make some sense of the whole process, but I am now deeply convinced that that process can be fast-tracked with access to:

Church history (facts)
Info on cult dynamics (facts, psychology & sociology)
Insights into the ways in which they screw with people's heads. (psychology)
Alternative frameworks of meaning (philosophy and spirituality)
Insights into normal stages of growth and development (developmental psychology)

That is part of what I engage in post-Mo for.

Daryl

[peter_mary]

What aspects of the Mo church would you like to see changed? (since the church seems to be making so many changes lately)

I have a very very very loooooong list but tag! you're it!

I'd like to see General Authorities be satisfied with a first and last name, and lose the friggin' middle initial like the rest of us;

I'd like to see donuts broken at the sacrement table, and served with milk (WHOLE milk) to wash it down;

I'd like to hear, just once, from someone at the pulpit, that the Pope might have more authority here on earth than one of our Deacons;

I'd like to hear more fiddle music in sacrament meetings;

I'd like the Church to to have the cajones to declare the money that women earn working outside the home as "filthy lucre," and refuse to accept tithing paid on that money ;) Oh, wait, it's not about the principle, it's about the money! Never mind...);

I'd like them to recognize that there are only three people in the entire world, all of them over the age of 75, who like the Home Teaching program. Home teach those people, and leave everyone else alone;

I'd like them to say, "We have enough money, really...so invest that 10% in mutual funds;"

I'd like them to adopt the motto, "We're the Mormons...come if you feel like it";

I'd like them to admit that only pretty sister missionaries get sent to Temple Square;

I think if you can mosh (OR polka...either one), then that should be good enough for getting in the temple;

I think that if you own a gun, you shouldn't be permitted to take the sacrament (now THAT's gonna irk someone out there...);

I think the first discussion should include memorizing all of Joseph's wives names, as well as their husband's names (as applicable);

I think the Church needs to lose the W of W and just say, "If it's against the law, then it's wrong. Otherwise, you're on your own."

I think they should simply teach people correct principles and let them govern themselves (yeah, like THAT will ever happen...) :)

Okay, that was fun!

Paul

[Born Free]

I think that if you own a gun, you shouldn't be permitted to take the sacrament (now THAT's gonna irk someone out there...);

Okay, that was fun!

Paul

Paul,

That probably fits over on the thread "Mormon Paranoid Gun-Totin' Dudes I have Known". It is one of paranoias faces that is hard to avoid in Mormonism.

Sort of like - If your frumped up, depressed, spirit-dead, overweight, frazzled Mormon wife doesn't get your juices surgin any more, buy a gun or two, or an AK47, or Armolite, or RPG; just the sort of basic stuff you need to keep the Gentiles away from your food storage. (It is more socially acceptable than scouring the porn sites on the net!)

Yehaaaaaaaaaaa! Circle the wagons. They're a comin' :eek:

[DNA Fan]

Open the temple up to everyone, which would mean discard all the secret handshakes and temple recommend nonsense. They could do their eternal marriages but not at the exclusion of friends and family who don't belong to the club.

If there's one thing I regret, it's leaving my in-laws out of their daughter's wedding. Shame, shame, shame on the Mormon church! :mad:

[Born Free]

It was in one of Big Eds writings I first came across a reference to Sam Keen's book Hymns to an Unknown God. I had to bring a copy into Australia from teh US, but have loved it. Thanks Ed!

In an important chapter he provides his checklist for a 'Spiritual BS Detector'.

Think of these signs as similar to the warning on a cigarette package.

Caution: These practices may be hazardous to your spiritual health.

Be careful of charismatic leaders, unquestioned authorities, enlightened masters, perfect gurus, reincarnated teachers, and therapists who claim to have discovered the only valid therapy.

Avoid authorities who offer a universal blueprint for salvation or a map for your spiritual pilgrimage.

Be wary of anyone who fascinates, captivates and overwhelms.

Avoid anyone who demands obedience. Obedience is a virtue for children and a civic obligation, but not a good way to spiritual maturity.

Look carefully at a spiritual teacher’s personal life. Does he or she deal with money, power, and sex in an open and admirable manner? Spiritual leaders should be held accountable.

Check to see if the spiritual leader has friends, peer relationships, and a community of equals, or only disciples. I distrust anyone who claims to have achieved universal compassion but lacks the capacity for simple friendship.

Observe whether difference of opinion, challenge, criticism, and discussion are encouraged or discouraged.

Do not commit yourself to any leader or group that demands that you place loyalty to them higher that your loyalty to your mate, your family, or your friends.

Reject immediately any leader or religion that identifies the homeland with the holy land, the folks with the people of God, the enemy with the evil empire. If narcissism is micro-idolatry, then nationalism is macro- idolatry.

Test how much humour and poking of fun about beliefs, slogans, and dogmas is permitted. The absence of humour is an almost certain sign of psychological rigidity, fanaticism, and impending spiritual and political tyranny."

How does that list fit that land of Sweetness, Truth and Light we left no far enough behind? :rolleyes:

Daryl

[free thinker]

I would like to see someone come to the podium, while Gordon B. Hinckley is speaking, and grab his cane off the hook. Then walk over and wack Boyd K Packer over the head with it!!! :mad: :D


Free Thinker

[peter_mary]

Test how much humour and poking of fun about beliefs, slogans, and dogmas is permitted. The absence of humour is an almost certain sign of psychological rigidity, fanaticism, and impending spiritual and political tyranny."

Daryl

This is why the Peep Stone Editor ;) and everyone who laughs at it is beyond hope.

Oh, and he's been known to play at the cards and dance lightheartedly a time or two...

Paul

[Born Free]

I would like to see someone come to the podium, while Gordon B. Hinckley is speaking, and grab his cane off the hook. Then walk over and wack Boyd K Packer over the head with it!!! :mad: :D


Free Thinker

Free Thinker,

Harbouring a bit of aggression there? Maybe there is a market for inflatable GA dolls that people can beat up on! :mad:

Isn't it interesting how we assume that age only brings maturity in spiritual matters? How about trying on the notion that Hinkley and the Pope are past it; that they have lost the sharp edge? I never fail to be amazed by footage of people in tears and awe at their every mumbled utterance.

I had pointed out to me by some (on the fringe) SDA friends that Ellen White was sent to Australia in her advanced years, because her failing mental health was seen as threatening her credibility as a prophetess.

I am not too sure what that says about Australia and Australians! At the better end, I can interpret it as Oz is a long way away, and crazy stories might not make the journey across the Pacific, or at the other extreme, we were less likely to identify dementia, or more likely to be in awe of her spiritual stature and confuse what we saw?

How do you think they'd respond to the idea of a mandatory retiring age? We have a TV series running here at present called Altered Statesmen - on the various ailments, in many cases, significant mental and substance abuse problems of various leaders throughout history. Kennedy is always the scariest - with one finger on THE BUTTON during the Cuba crisis, whilst on 'roids and speed.

Maybe there should be psych testing and age limits for all candidates for Church and National Leadership.

[free thinker]

Free Thinker,

Harbouring a bit of aggression there? Maybe there is a market for inflatable GA dolls that people can beat up on! :mad:

Isn't it interesting how we assume that age only brings maturity in spiritual matters? How about trying on the notion that Hinkley and the Pope are past it; that they have lost the sharp edge? I never fail to be amazed by footage of people in tears and awe at their every mumbled utterance.

I had pointed out to me by some (on the fringe) SDA friends that Ellen White was sent to Australia in her advanced years, because her failing mental health was seen as threatening her credibility as a prophetess.

I am not too sure what that says about Australia and Australians! At the better end, I can interpret it as Oz is a long way away, and crazy stories might not make the journey across the Pacific, or at the other extreme, we were less likely to identify dementia, or more likely to be in awe of her spiritual stature and confuse what we saw?

How do you think they'd respond to the idea of a mandatory retiring age? We have a TV series running here at present called Altered Statesmen - on the various ailments, in many cases, significant mental and substance abuse problems of various leaders throughout history. Kennedy is always the scariest - with one finger on THE BUTTON during the Cuba crisis, whilst on 'roids and speed.

Maybe there should be psych testing and age limits for all candidates for Church and National Leadership.


He and Joseph Smith shared the same voracious apetite for sexual activity it seems. Kennedy was a mess. He was in great pain, as you know. Isn't it interesting that people have so agrandized both men with layers of myth. I have little respect for either of them.

Do you think if Joseph Smith had lived on to old age, that some of the myth would have died out? Wouldn't the Nauvoo Expositor have ruined him, if it would have been able to go forth. I think William Law really had his number. For some, I think, a young death only adds to the depth, and aura of myth.

What say ye?

Free Thinker

PS Maybe harboring a little aggression! Mostly though, I just think the cane scene would be fun to watch!! Kinda like Ruth Buzy from Laugh In!! :D

[noodle]

I wanna know where the GAs learn to talk "that way." You know, the singsong sortof voice that lulls you to sleep, or makes you want to run screaming and nekkid into the night. And it ain't just Mo folks. Growing up as an episcopalian in the south, the bishop would come do confirmations each year. He would speak in this british sort of tone, and role his r's. Where the hell does that come from? That dude was from Georgia! Just once, wouldn't it be fun to have a GA scream "Hallelujah" and wipe sweat from his brow? The audience could echo with "Yeah brother!" and "Praise Jesus!"

Amen.

[silverfox]

I wanna know where the GAs learn to talk "that way." You know, the singsong sortof voice that lulls you to sleep, or makes you want to run screaming and nekkid into the night. And it ain't just Mo folks. Growing up as an episcopalian in the south, the bishop would come do confirmations each year. He would speak in this british sort of tone, and role his r's. Where the hell does that come from? That dude was from Georgia! Just once, wouldn't it be fun to have a GA scream "Hallelujah" and wipe sweat from his brow? The audience could echo with "Yeah brother!" and "Praise Jesus!"

Amen.

Every General Conference I am irritated by the same monotone of each speaker. I have always asked if the church has a class they insist all speakers attend? Or what? The women, men, all - for the most part have the same very monotone speech. They could be telling a wonderful story but if you aren't listening closely you will miss it. blah, blah blah. The church would probably get more members via televised General Conferences if they pepped it up a little. Gosh, if they would just at least allow a hint of personality and individuality it would liven things up. Oh, wait, "individuality" in conjunction with "LDS Church"??? That won't happen.

[lsands]

A joyous, vital part of our humanity to be celebrated and enjoyed as much as possible with appropriate partners or alone, as our circumstances permit!

And I would especially like to see them encourage young people to wait to get married until they are fully emotionally and financially prepared, and only have as many children as they feel able to ENJOY.

[Free-soil]

Every General Conference I am irritated by the same monotone of each speaker. I have always asked if the church has a class they insist all speakers attend? Or what? The women, men, all - for the most part have the same very monotone speech. They could be telling a wonderful story but if you aren't listening closely you will miss it. blah, blah blah. The church would probably get more members via televised General Conferences if they pepped it up a little. Gosh, if they would just at least allow a hint of personality and individuality it would liven things up. Oh, wait, "individuality" in conjunction with "LDS Church"??? That won't happen.

Amen to Silverfox! I actually was called in to speak with the Bishop because I taught a RS lesson and told the girls that they were complete without a husband and they shouldn't just get married because it was next on the to-do list...AHHH! He was pretty mad and told me every righteous woman desired to be married.

Other things I would like to see changed...

I would have liked people to not expect me to call someone who is my peer sister or bro just because they were married. It was like..."oh you just got sealed ? I'm only endowed...you're one up on me."

the superiority members hold just because they are members. In the south, almost everyone goes to church. Mormons, though, mock everyone's vain attempt at finding and worshiping christ because He only talks to the mormons. Are they serious?!?

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE SOME TOLERANCE FOR OTHERS AND AN ACCEPTANCE THAT THERE MIGHT BE ANOTHER WAY TO DO THINGS.

free-soil

[Born Free]

Let's start with a few obervations:

Morphanism loves growth
Morphanism loves inviting the Lord to perform miracles like turning the crap that passes as food at most Mo functions into something that will "nourish and sustain".
Morphanism loves $money
Morphanism likes to be seen as associated with winners.
Morphanism loves business

So the obvious step would be for Morphanism to cut a deal with MacDonalds, that would offer discounts against a family pack if you get a special MorphanMacDonalds voucher only sourcable from a major Church meetings like Sunday School or Sacrament Meeting.

The drinks on offer might have to exclude Coke, but any other caffeine-rich product will be OK, as long as it is not know generally to contain same. It would also not been redeemable on Sundays, unless it came with an exclusionary note from the SP or Bishop.

Another option would be the Super-MorphanMacDonalds pack, which would enable the family to buy and eat at Maccas on Sundays, if the adults had a current Temple Recommend. It would also include a sache of prepackaged meal blessing (from which the Church gets a cut).

Of course the meat (if that is what you call it) in the burgers is not a problem, because Morphanism overlooks the WoW limitations, because it involves business - big business, which is a higher God for Morphanism.

This would have the added bonus of halting the demise in Church growth. It could also be accompanied by the slogan "The family that Macs together, Celestializes together - forever!"

Daryl

[nikki]

Amen to Silverfox! I actually was called in to speak with the Bishop because I taught a RS lesson and told the girls that they were complete without a husband and they shouldn't just get married because it was next on the to-do list...AHHH! He was pretty mad and told me every righteous woman desired to be married.

Other things I would like to see changed...

I would have liked people to not expect me to call someone who is my peer sister or bro just because they were married. It was like..."oh you just got sealed ? I'm only endowed...you're one up on me."

the superiority members hold just because they are members. In the south, almost everyone goes to church. Mormons, though, mock everyone's vain attempt at finding and worshiping christ because He only talks to the mormons. Are they serious?!?

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE SOME TOLERANCE FOR OTHERS AND AN ACCEPTANCE THAT THERE MIGHT BE ANOTHER WAY TO DO THINGS.

free-soil

Hi Tennessee!,

As I recall many of the Tennessee folk had a notion that Mormon's wore 'red underware"! Maybe they were not too far off. :p

Many of the people from the south had an understanding of the LDS Church for many decades, maybe the LDS' ers do not have much to feel superior about. I would think the LDS church are still out numbered in 'Bible Belt' country, and most of the faiths there see them as a 'cult' in the south.

Yes, LDS do need to be more tolerant of others, and not mock. Mocking seems to be in the culture of many of the members, at least from observation. Oh, those "laurels" they have on their heads, some how got to their thinking.

Glad to see a fine Tennesseean on board!

[Free-soil]

Hi Tennessee!,

As I recall many of the Tennessee folk had a notion that Mormon's wore 'red underware"! Maybe they were not too far off. :p

Many of the people from the south had an understanding of the LDS Church for many decades, maybe the LDS' ers do not have much to feel superior about. I would think the LDS church are still out numbered in 'Bible Belt' country, and most of the faiths there see them as a 'cult' in the south.

Yes, LDS do need to be more tolerant of others, and not mock. Mocking seems to be in the culture of many of the members, at least from observation. Oh, those "laurels" they have on their heads, some how got to their thinking.

Glad to see a fine Tennesseean on board!

Nikki,

Thanks for your welcome! You are right...everyone here in the south knows about the church. Almost everyone major religion offers courses about how to "witness" to mormons and why the church is a cult. Amazingly though, the members here don't care- "Those holy-roller christians don't know Christ like we do...so how could they understand" (This was said in a testimony meeting in my ward- YIKES! :eek: ) Maybe one day those TBM will get it! I won't hold my breath and wait though :D .

[miss taken]

OOh hadn't really noticed this thread before.

Okay here is my twopenneth!!!

1)For their to be a total ban on people saying
'I know the church is true' What the heck does that mean anyway!!! (Thinking about it how about a world wide ban on testimony meetings, it might be because people were fasting and in need of a sugar fix, but they were full of crying women who seemed so burdened by life that I often walked out incredibly depressed)

2)For the bishop etc etc, to say that it is okay not to know whether Joseph smith was a prophet, in fact for the church to admit the truth about historical beginnings and deal with it

3) For the church to admit that Joseph Smith was a deeply flawed man, as was Brigham Young

4) To announce that women can now become bishop, stake president or prophet!!!

5) To tell members that the word of wisdom might make you a healthy person, and it might make you an obedient person, but it doesn't make you a GOOD person.

6) To announce that the local bricky will be the next prophet (and why not!!!)

7) To reduce sunday time from 3 hours to 45 minutes max.

8) Ban patriarchal and priesthood blessings as 'fortune telling'

9) Stop £400,000 stipends for the top men

10) In the spirit of equality, to announce that women may now have more than one husband.


There are loads more...but son is calling.

[silverfox]

8) Ban patriarchal and priesthood blessings as 'fortune telling'

There are loads more...but son is calling.

I heard rumor that the way patriarchal blessings are given has changed. Not sure of all the details but I do know that patriarchs are to be addressed as "brother so and so" instead of "patriarch so and so". I heard the blessings were to be kept short and very simple. Very interesting. I haven't received confirmation regarding the changes....it's one of those so and so heard in their bishopric meeting, blah blah blah.

Good list, by the way :)

[mindbender]

Silverfox,

When you bingle your car badly, the insurance assessors have to make a critical decision: It is economically viable to repair this vehicle?

To persist with the car metaphor, I would ask these questions:

The car compliance plate indicates it was originally stolen, and and has been fitted with a compliance plate to cover that,

The chassis is riddled with rust.

The headlights have non-genuine replacment lense, so any light it casts is poor, and poorly focused.

The windscreen has cracks, and produces severe vision problems when exposed to any strong light.

Numerous minors have been sexually abused in the vehicle, so it has a really bad energy about it.

Numerous adult women have been abused or coerced into doing things they strongly disliked.

The engine runs on leaded fuel, so is an environmental distaster.

Nader has campaigned against the vehicle as being of poor design and a safety distaster, but the manufacturer uses big PR funds to create demand and silence critics, including several former engineer employees. (Mind you they do have a special on strange looking fire-resistent clothing)

The car has fossilised on the bumper several problematic stickers - several in each category: Racist (scribbled across), anti-feminist, anti-gay, anti-sex, anti-native-american.

The windows have an unusual film on them, which lets little to no light in.

The indicators don't work, inspite that the car makes repeated changes of direction unexpectedly when being driven.

It is a manual with really bad clutch, so progress is limited and spasmodic. This is not assisted by a very stiff and sticky throttle.

Anyone want to make any additions?

Do I make my point of how I think the assessor should vote? Would you want to buy this vehicle if it passes muster?

Darylwhat about a rolls royce badge but its actually a toyota

[Born Free]

what about a rolls royce badge but its actually a toyota

henz,

Nah! Too face valid! A Toyota is still an honest (if not flash) motor vehicle.

The MoMobile would have:

An engine from a Chevy
A transmission that is claimed to be a 6 speed automatic, but is actually 3 speed manual and a sticky box at that.
Promise of an Eternal Warranty and never needs petrol (gas to the Yanks), when in fact the damned thing needs constant service and maintenance and is very fuel hungry.
Have rascist stickers
Has misogynist stickers
Has faked warranty and service papers.
Has faked receipts for original delivery.
The servicemen turn out to be rank amateurs with little to no training whatsoever.
Sold by a saleman who hits on your wife while your back is turned.

The list goes o and on!

[noodle]

I thought of this one today, and it is one that has always nagged at me. I'd like for kids of missionary age (male and female) to have a choice in what type of mission they would want: service vs proselytizing. Better still, why can't they ALL be true service missions without any of the proselytizing stuff? Surely there are enough "service" jobs to keep one busy for two years: kids to read to, nursing homes to visit, animal shelters, food pantries, homeless shelters, Planned Parenthood :D, etc.

[Born Free]

I thought of this one today, and it is one that has always nagged at me. I'd like for kids of missionary age (male and female) to have a choice in what type of mission they would want: service vs proselytizing. Better still, why can't they ALL be true service missions without any of the proselytizing stuff? Surely there are enough "service" jobs to keep one busy for two years: kids to read to, nursing homes to visit, animal shelters, food pantries, homeless shelters, Planned Parenthood :D, etc.

It was Spong who suggested that all proselytizing religions work from an "I'm OK, You're Not OK" mindset. This label for the mindset comes from Transactional Analysis (TA), in which it is suggested that everyone operates from one of 4 perspectives:

I'm Not Ok, You're OK (standard childhood take)
I'm Not Ok, You're Not OK (standard depressed outlook)
I'm OK, You're Not (pathological outlook)
and the ideal
I'm OK, You're OK

Mormonism has a lot invested in its people remaining superiour to and separated from the world. A service mission might create a sense of shared humanity, which would not be compatible with prevailing Mo mentality.

So I like your thinking, but don't hold your breath!

Daryl

PS: I'm OK, You're Not is the same mindset held by about 80% of prison inmates.

[miss taken]

I thought of this one today, and it is one that has always nagged at me. I'd like for kids of missionary age (male and female) to have a choice in what type of mission they would want: service vs proselytizing. Better still, why can't they ALL be true service missions without any of the proselytizing stuff? Surely there are enough "service" jobs to keep one busy for two years: kids to read to, nursing homes to visit, animal shelters, food pantries, homeless shelters, Planned Parenthood :D, etc.


Mamajama that is a BRILLIANT IDEA. If I had been allowed a choice I know which one I would have picked!!
Brilliant.
Mary

[noodle]

It was Spong who suggested that all proselytizing religions work from an "I'm OK, You're Not OK" mindset.
Daryl

Hadn't thought about it that way, but that's a great point. I have looked at some of Spong's stuff per your previous threads that mentioned him, and I liked what I saw.

Janet

PS: Thanks, Mary, for the compliment :)

[Born Free]

Hadn't thought about it that way, but that's a great point. I have looked at some of Spong's stuff per your previous threads that mentioned him, and I liked what I saw.

Janet

PS: Thanks, Mary, for the compliment :)

It is widely observed that adults holding this mindset have adopted it at some point in their life, usually childhood, to cope with very toxic shaming scripts.

A child in an abusive home, may for example, feel they could be crushed by believing they deserve what is being visited upon them. At some point they say, "No, enough is enough! I cannot handle any more being Not OK, and You OK to dish this out; so I will reverse the positions. I will be OK, and You Not OK, and with you anyone else who attempts to shame me".

I find it interesting to look for parallels with religous upbringing, because something in their upbringing results in the adoption of the same mindset of 80% of inmates.

We do know that conservative religous homes can be more in favour of corporal pusnihment, but I am not sure physical violence accounts for all this. I suspect that spiritual rape and shaming is a factor. Several of Eds papers are among the best I have read in this area.

I would be glad to see others take on this.

Daryl

[Born Free]

I regard nuanced change to Mormonism as about as useful at adjusting deck chairs on the Titanic. (Sorry to mix my metaphores! :( )

If you had it as a project with the power to say:

Either I revamp it
Or I wipe the deck and start afresh

I'd start afresh. I regard it as way too compromised.

The only problem is that, Moism had many people on board who have happily switched off their critical faculties and want a Plug & Play Belief System, and to leave them out in the cold, would cause wholesale panic. Many would just rush off and join the closest replacement, something like Seventh Day Adventism probably, which generated out of the same societal and historical construct and carries many similar values and beliefs.

Sorry to be a spoiled sport! :cool:

Daryl

[elder_nomo]

a Plug & Play Belief System,
Daryl, i have never seen mormonism summed up so succintly. :cool: