Have You Ever Been Asked?

[peter_mary]

When we first became "inactive," we anticipated having to answer a lot of hard questions. In fact, my dear wife was so concerned about the bumbling things I was likely to say to the Bishop or other inquiring members that we often rehearsed (mostly for my benefit) what our responses would be to various questions. After a year of laying low, practicing and anticipating everything someone might pose to us, we felt we were ready. Our first real step out was when we notified the Bishop that we would not be coming in for tithing settlement. And then we waited for the phone call we knew would come. And we waited. And waited. Five years later, we're still waiting, and not once, not ONE TIME has any member of our ward EVER asked one thing regarding why we don't come out to Church. In fairness, my wife's sister did call just a few short months ago and ask my wife "what's up with Paul?" and she ended up hearing a lot more than she bargained for...but at least she asked. Nobody else seems to bother.

And that all by itself wouldn't bother me so much EXCEPT that there have been all these charming rumors that have been circulating around our current ward, spilling over into our OLD ward, and out into the wider community. These juicy, interesting and (oops!) wholly untrue rumors that we've been blessed with include: We're getting a divorce (never been happier together); we've become Buddhist (love the philosophy, not interested in the religion); our son was involved in a homosexual relationship with another boy in the ward (nope, not true--he's quite normal in that regard); our daughter had an abortion in the women's bathroom at Church (you think I'm making that one up, but I'm not. We actually were approached by the Bishop, asking us if it was true because he had been notified of such by a "concerned ward member." We assured him that if our daughter were to have an abortion, she was smart enough to do it somewhere else besides the meetinghouse bathroom during Church...hello!); our daughter was also accused of making a pornographic video with her boyfriend and posting it on the internet (once again, not true, but our daughter had to leave the High School she was in partly due to the new-found fame from her starring role in a video that never happened); and the best one of all--we formed our own polygamist cult like the ones in southern Utah and we're recruiting. And those are just the ones we KNOW about...

So I don't know whether to be glad no one ever talked to us, or really really concerned that they never did!

Anyone ever really talk to you?

Paul

[silverfox]

Okay I am just plain ^&%$#@ TICKED OFF (is it okay to use signs to swear???) that your daughter had to leave school because of stupid assanine Mormon Gossip. And these ____mongers who can flap their gums justify it because they are "active" and sit in a church on a weekly basis. (let me at 'em, let me at 'em!!!!) Okay, it's just fleeting anger....Don't worry....I'm still Post, I'm still Post.

I have never been asked. Hubby was questioned about MY beliefs in his last interview about a year ago with our bish. He fumbled as he didn't expect to be asked about ME. Other than that we have received a few phone calls, mostly to interview our teen - NO %$#@ WAY - alone with an adult in a room with all the molestation going on in the church? The last time I answered the phone and a leader asked for my teen daughter I asked him if he didn't think it was inappropriate to be calling my DAUGHTER and asking for her directly? My teen daughter is still not sure which way to go so I didn't request to have her name removed although in my letter I did DEMAND that no leader, bishop, teacher NO ONE was allowed to contact her directly or interview her ALONE without a parent.

I have heard a few rumors about us, too and it is all so typical. We are alcoholics. It's such a shame. sigh.

I find it interesting that our kids' have higher morals than most "TBM" kids in our STAKE. The best part, these morals are chosen, not shoved down their throats.

I am sorry you and your family have had to endure such pain due to G O S S I P. That bish should have been worried about who is starting such ugly ridiculous rumors rather than insulting you by asking if it was TRUE. Some things will never change. EVER.

[peter_mary]

Originally Posted by silverfox

I have never been asked. Hubby was questioned about MY beliefs in his last interview about a year ago with our bish. He fumbled as he didn't expect to be asked about ME. I

Part of the culture, I suppose...we can't talk directly to people, but we can ask OTHER people about them. I used to hate Priesthood Executive Committee Meetings and Ward Correlation/Welfare Meetings while in the Bishopric, because we always talked ABOUT people, but nobody ever actually talked WITH those people. It was sanctioned gossip without any meaningful outcome.

Other than that we have received a few phone calls, mostly to interview our teen - NO %$#@ WAY - alone with an adult in a room with all the molestation going on in the church? The last time I answered the phone and a leader asked for my teen daughter I asked him if he didn't think it was inappropriate to be calling my DAUGHTER and asking for her directly? My teen daughter is still not sure which way to go so I didn't request to have her name removed although in my letter I did DEMAND that no leader, bishop, teacher NO ONE was allowed to contact her directly or interview her ALONE without a parent.

Our oldest daughter (now 20) recounted to us shortly before we "fell away" that our Bishop called her into his office repeatedly and grilled her about masterbation...certain she was engaging in it. She didn't even know what it was, but she figured it out listening to him go on about it. He simply refused to believe that she was not engaging. When she really talked with us about it, she was humiliated, embarassed, mortified and completely confused.

In hindsight, it is clear to me that this was spiritual molestation, for lack of a better term. There is no doubt in my mind that he recognized that she was attractive (she's lovely), and the only way he could "enjoy her" was to torment her about sexual things. It grieves me to no end that I once condoned that kind of thing by virtue of a Bishop's Priesthood authority. We still have one daughter left (and two teenage boys) at home, and none of them, but especially not my daughter, will ever sit for a Bishop's interview again. (We haven't resigned yet for political and family reasons...someday, though...someday).

I have heard a few rumors about us, too and it is all so typical. We are alcoholics. It's such a shame. sigh.

We haven't heard that one yet, but I'm sure it's circulating!

I find it interesting that our kids' have higher morals than most "TBM" kids in our STAKE. The best part, these morals are chosen, not shoved down their throats.

This has also been our experience. Our kids have developed a very strong sense of values, almost all of which would make a Bishop proud (except for the length of their hair, their facial hair, and the choice of music they listen to). But they have developed this commitment to these values after searching their own hearts and not because of some heavy-handed, threaten-you-with-eternal-damnation preaching on the part of the Church. It is partly what leads me to believe there is hope for the human race without organized religion!

Paul

[silverfox]

Originally Posted by allenph

Our oldest daughter (now 20) recounted to us shortly before we "fell away" that our Bishop called her into his office repeatedly and grilled her about masterbation...certain she was engaging in it. She didn't even know what it was, but she figured it out listening to him go on about it. He simply refused to believe that she was not engaging. When she really talked with us about it, she was humiliated, embarassed, mortified and completely confused.

In hindsight, it is clear to me that this was spiritual molestation, for lack of a better term. There is no doubt in my mind that he recognized that she was attractive (she's lovely), and the only way he could "enjoy her" was to torment her about sexual things. It grieves me to no end that I once condoned that kind of thing by virtue of a Bishop's Priesthood authority. We still have one daughter left (and two teenage boys) at home, and none of them, but especially not my daughter, will ever sit for a Bishop's interview again. (We haven't resigned yet for political and family reasons...someday, though...someday).
Paul

Are you familiar with the Mormon Alliance site? You are correct when you say this is spiritual abuse. Sickening. I think back to interviews I had with bishops as a young woman.......sick, sick, sick. I felt it at the time and still feel the same way. And, I like you grieve over the fact that I subjected my kids to this insanity. Our sons were interrogated about pornography and masturbation at age 13,14. I had no idea they were being "attacked" like that until just recently.

If there's one piece of advice I have for any member still attending church....DO NOT LEAVE YOUR KIDS ALONE WITH ANYONE. NOT A PRIMARY TEACHER, A SUNDAY SCHOOL TEACHER, LEADER, NO ONE NEVER EVER AT ANY TIME. They have no right to interrogate your kids about anything.

As members, we blindly trust our kids to practical STRANGERS all because we are conditioned to believe that these people have been called by God to care for our kids. I find it interesting that we would think it inappropriate for a teacher to keep our kids after school alone or meet with them in a room with a closed door or call them at home but yet in the name of God we lead our kids right into the hands of again, practical strangers and give them all kinds of freedoms with our kids. Makes me sick. SICK.

[lisa]

My experience with this has been difficult at best.
Even when I was active, and really trying to do what I thought at the time was right those ignorant TBM's were sitting there judging me. I and my family were constantly the focus of some little tid-bit of ward gossip. Yes, my husband did end up to be a #%@!...but that still does not give people the right to gossip about people...saying things they don't even have a clue about. I have just recently been public about my feeleing on the church. Now I have found out so much about myself that I didnt even know, or was even aware of.
I am a drunk, I smoke, I have sex with all kinds of men, and I am involved with a cult. Now none of these are true, but thats the rumor both in my family, and in my ward. It sickens me to think that you can't just leave, they have to torture you first. If the torture I went thru before leaving wasnt enough, they had to step it up a notch once I finally left.

In the beginning I left becouse of the rumors and the way people treated me esp. bishops and so called leaders of my wards. But now I took it upon myself to read, and study, and find out for myself. Now, I know its a lie. I am angry and hurt that so many people are so caught up in the lie. And the way these so called good church memebers treat one another is enough to make me sick. Sorry I kinda ranted...I have just been processing a lot lately.
Lisa

[peter_mary]

Originally Posted by lisa

It sickens me to think that you can't just leave, they have to torture you first. If the torture I went thru before leaving wasnt enough, they had to step it up a notch once I finally left.

Lisa

I'm not a cult expert, but I would guess that there is some powerful psycho-social dynamics at play here. I know for myself, I always assumed while a TBM that people who left the Church were "dark" inside. They had lost the light. We use words like "fell away," or "became inactive" (which suggests either laziness or death) to describe those who leave. (Never heard anyone ask if you've "risen above" the Church, now have you? ) The myth-making includes the notion that the Church provides some degree of sanctuary from all the ills and evils of the world...abuse, divorce, addiction, infidelity...all of those things are "of the world" and when you are in the Church, you are protected from that. That's all very nice, except for one thing...it's not true. But it's a part of what makes you feel special and elite as a member of God's chosen people, and so we LIKE how that makes us feel when we are being true to the Church.

On the other hand, it has a dark flip-side. If the myth says you are protected while you are "in," the natural extension of that myth is that you will succumb to the world when you are "out." If that's not the case, then what's the incentive to stay cloaked in ignorance? So it makes no sense to TBMs that people can just "outgrow" the Church. How do you "outgrow" the truth? The myth says you can't...you can only deny the truth. And what would cause you to do that? Some secret sin that is making you feel too guilty is a likely candidate, and so our families and ward members quickly jump to conclusions, trying hard to figure out what it MUST be that drove you out, because it has to be SOMETHING! And the sooner they figure it out, then the sooner they can relax, safe in the knowledge that the problem was YOU and not the Church...or worse...themselves.

If you tell them that you did some reading or thinking and you became convinced that the Church was nothing more than a man-made institution, then they shake their heads and speak amongst themselves of the power of denial and the cleverness of Satan in deceiving you into believing that your sinful ways are justified.

More importantly, when they stick all those rumors on us and paint us as fallen, deceived or wicked, it strengthens their own convictions. When we fall, they grow closer together, and so it is self-reinforcing. I would expect that contributes to the feeling of being "ripped" from everything you knew and loved when something finally snaps in your brain and you scream, "ENOUGH!" You know, you KNOW, at a deep level that you will be rejected by the community you loved. Anticipating that rejection is just as painful as receiving it. I might also suggest, as a post script, that we often encourage that rejection by anticipating it and reacting to it before it actually occurs. That's what self-fulfilling prophecy is all about.

What I have come to learn is that this is not about bad people...it's about the power of social dynamics and culture. In most cases, I would guess that these people are not acting this way because they are mean...they are acting this way because they are insecure, unsure, and fragile in their own belief. (Okay, some of them are mean, but most are just normal folks trying to figure out their place in the world.) Their faith, although perhaps fervent, is still a tenuous thing, supported only by the desires of their hearts and the hope for all things promised...but there can be no real assurity. Can't be. So they are constantly looking for ways to assuage that insecurity, and WE provide the perfect vehicle for offering comfort to themselves, wrapping themselves tighter in the culture that they believe offers them protection both in this life and the life to come. That's a powerful myth, based entirely on fear. I guess I can't blame them for that, but I do feel sorry for 'em.

There's a lot in there that could probaby be developed into a book...

Paul

[silverfox]

Originally Posted by allenph

.

What I have come to learn is that this is not about bad people...it's about the power of social dynamics and culture. In most cases, I would guess that these people are not acting this way because they are mean...they are acting this way because they are insecure, unsure, and fragile in their own belief. (Okay, some of them are mean, but most are just normal folks trying to figure out their place in the world.) Their faith, although perhaps fervent, is still a tenuous thing, supported only by the desires of their hearts and the hope for all things promised...but there can be no real assurity. Can't be. So they are constantly looking for ways to assuage that insecurity, and WE provide the perfect vehicle for offering comfort to themselves, wrapping themselves tighter in the culture that they believe offers them protection both in this life and the life to come. That's a powerful myth, based entirely on fear. I guess I can't blame them for that, but I do feel sorry for 'em.

There's a lot in there that could probaby be developed into a book...

Paul

Paul, your post is very profound and I hope anyone who is still struggling with leaving reads it. You are so right on! The conditioning is so deep and those words..."...avoid even the appearance of evil" rings loud and clear in most member's heads. To them we are evil. If you sit on your patio and drink a margarita (whether it has alcohol or not) it's evil. Members don't want to be associated with someone who has been catergorized as "evil" or "fallen". You can be the most caring, giving wondeful person in the world and it won't matter. It's like wearing the Red Letter. You are marked. We know what they are thinking, how they are feeling because we used to be ONE OF THEM. (arrrrrrgh!!!!) So we have one up on them, really. You learn real fast who are your friends and who aren't. Unfortunately even those active members who I thought were my friends only remained friends with me to get info to report back to the leaders. sigh

[peter_mary]

Originally Posted by silverfox

We know what they are thinking, how they are feeling because we used to be ONE OF THEM. (arrrrrrgh!!!!) So we have one up on them, really.

This has been one of the most important lessons for me in my Post-Mo journey--the realization that I understand how THEY must feel, think and believe, but they CANNOT understand how I feel, think and believe. I've walked those miles in their mocassins, but they've not done the same in mine. That doesn't make them bad, it just means they've had different experiences, in the same way that I can never understand what it would be like to be a Muslim living in Libya...I've just never had that experience, but it doesn't make me bad.

Paul

[nikki]

Originally Posted by allenph

When we first became "inactive," we anticipated having to answer a lot of hard questions. In fact, my dear wife was so concerned about the bumbling things I was likely to say to the Bishop or other inquiring members that we often rehearsed (mostly for my benefit) what our responses would be to various questions. After a year of laying low, practicing and anticipating everything someone might pose to us, we felt we were ready. Our first real step out was when we notified the Bishop that we would not be coming in for tithing settlement. And then we waited for the phone call we knew would come. And we waited. And waited. Five years later, we're still waiting, and not once, not ONE TIME has any member of our ward EVER asked one thing regarding why we don't come out to Church. In fairness, my wife's sister did call just a few short months ago and ask my wife "what's up with Paul?" and she ended up hearing a lot more than she bargained for...but at least she asked. Nobody else seems to bother.

And that all by itself wouldn't bother me so much EXCEPT that there have been all these charming rumors that have been circulating around our current ward, spilling over into our OLD ward, and out into the wider community. These juicy, interesting and (oops!) wholly untrue rumors that we've been blessed with include: We're getting a divorce (never been happier together); we've become Buddhist (love the philosophy, not interested in the religion); our son was involved in a homosexual relationship with another boy in the ward (nope, not true--he's quite normal in that regard); our daughter had an abortion in the women's bathroom at Church (you think I'm making that one up, but I'm not. We actually were approached by the Bishop, asking us if it was true because he had been notified of such by a "concerned ward member." We assured him that if our daughter were to have an abortion, she was smart enough to do it somewhere else besides the meetinghouse bathroom during Church...hello!); our daughter was also accused of making a pornographic video with her boyfriend and posting it on the internet (once again, not true, but our daughter had to leave the High School she was in partly due to the new-found fame from her starring role in a video that never happened); and the best one of all--we formed our own polygamist cult like the ones in southern Utah and we're recruiting. And those are just the ones we KNOW about...

So I don't know whether to be glad no one ever talked to us, or really really concerned that they never did!

Anyone ever really talk to you?

Paul

Dear Paul,

The Church members did not talk to you, they talked "about" you, and your family.

LDS people are great rumor mills, and they do a lot of damage, as your daughter experienced.

I have been direct when LDS people have contacted me. I am sure I have taken a few missionaries back, when I was honest with them. The Bishop here for some time put me on the 'do not call list'. Bet, they were afarid of some 'truth' getting out and hurting their church numbers!

And maybe one day the whole truth will get out.

[templenamesarah]

Originally Posted by peter_mary

And that all by itself wouldn't bother me so much EXCEPT that there have been all these charming rumors that have been circulating around our current ward, spilling over into our OLD ward, and out into the wider community. These juicy, interesting and (oops!) wholly untrue rumors that we've been blessed with include: We're getting a divorce (never been happier together); we've become Buddhist (love the philosophy, not interested in the religion); our son was involved in a homosexual relationship with another boy in the ward (nope, not true--he's quite normal in that regard); our daughter had an abortion in the women's bathroom at Church (you think I'm making that one up, but I'm not. We actually were approached by the Bishop, asking us if it was true because he had been notified of such by a "concerned ward member." Anyone ever really talk to you?

Paul

Hi, Paul. The TBMs we leave behind can sure be smug, can't they? My inactivity coincided with the breakup of my marriage. I was 22, and getting divorced after more than 4 (!) years of marriage. I left my husband because of his emotional abuse and his refusal to treat me like an equal partner in the marriage. It didn't take long before the rumors got back to me. I don't know if my ex simply made up lies or if the people just made things up to explain my leaving, but the rumor mill had it that I was having an affair, that I was on drugs, that I was a lesbian. (None of those things were true.)

After my ex and I separated, I did, in fact, do some experimenting with sex and alcohol. I had a great deal of shame about this, and I actually bought into the notion (for a little while) that I really WAS too steeped in sin to be an active LDS. I still believed the church at that time, I just wasn't an active participant.

My father completely supported my ex. Dad told me that I should think of my husband's abuse as a symptom of an illness rather than a flaw of character. Gee, great advice, Dad. Is it any wonder that my first husband was a complete narcissist like my father?

Now, ten years and three moves later, the Mormon spies still manage to find me. The mishies still come by at all hours, and my VTs keep love-bombing me with brownies.

A very common thread in this conversation is that when one leaves, the Church turns on you.

Has anyone else experience the Church turning on the one you love because of you?

When it became known that my fiance and I were dating (May 2004) her family and ward began spreading rumors about her. I feel they were really taking shots at me. . . but they hurt the one that I love most in the process.

List of Fun Little Tid-Bits I Heard:

I was brainwashing Megan to my "anti-mormon" ways. (HA! F**ers, if anything I have alerted Megan to your brainwashing)

I was giving Megan heroine and cocaine in an effort to keep her near me.

I was keeping Megan in a state of mental and physical bondage and was using her as nothing more than a sex-slave.

I was only dating Megan because we were having sex and she was pregnant. (This one really pisses me off. We didn't start our physical relationship until after we were engaged, Aug. 2004,)

Megan left the Church.

She no longer cared for her family and it was because I don't like them.

The list goes on and on. It makes me so hurt and angry that the Church turned their viscious brainwashing upon my Megan. . . (I found out a few months ago that her Dad started a few of these rumours himself). . .GRR!

Anyone else have a loved one attacked for your leaving the Church?

[keene maverick]

No one's ever asked me about my beleifs, although...

Aren't bishops intervues supposed to be confidential?

I can't walk around in Pleasant Grove, because my bishop actually told many of the leaders of the ward (all leaders and good friends of mine) that I masturbate.

True story: Walking down the street to visit a friend. Three times, THREE TIMES on the way, I was stopped by people mowing thier lawns, to answer the question, "Hey Dan! How's the masturbation going?!"

My favorite was the guilt trips they tried to pin on me after I left.

My mom: What am I going to say to christ, when he asks "Why did you let your son leave the church?" (How is this a problem of mine? Guilting me for your mistakes, bad woman!)

My bishop, in the official "You're out" letter: "I hope you reconsider. Your family and friends are all strong, active members in the church. They will all be hurt and distressed at your leaving." (After a few months, they don't care. Although my mom still gets pissed off when I tell her how excited I was to find a 1977 version of the BoM)

My friends: "What commandment couldn't you keep?"

When co-workers at The Purple Turtle found out I wasn't Mormon, rumors started spreading, people started talking behind my back (I have really good ears, I could hear them even when I was in the giant walk-in refridgerator), and no one respected me anymore. I was given the "World's most late employee" award at our annual picnic, even though I've NEVER been more than 4 minutes late (I have the time-slips to prove it).

GAR!!!

[nate]

Originally Posted by keene maverick

Although my mom still gets pissed off when I tell her how excited I was to find a 1977 version of the BoM

Hey, what's this all about? Were there different versions printed? What changed?

Thanks.
Nate

Originally Posted by nate

Hey, what's this all about? Were there different versions printed? What changed?

Thanks.
Nate

I am not sure if you are being facetious or not. If you are asking in the quest of knowledge, please post so. . . Because I would hate to swamp you with changes if you already know about them.

-Bryan

[maleficent]

if i started any gossip when i left it's not known to me. i didn't have any TBM friends, ever, and my former teachers and church leaders avoided me when i WAS a member. in fact i doubt most of my former ward members even know that i've truly left the church because only a year after "going inactive" i moved away.

i would almost be flattered in some sick sad way if i was the topic of a home making meeting hen fest. at least i would be remembered. when i left it was like i died and no one wants to bring it up becasue the memories are too painful.

even if i was, my family would not have permitted it. they have never shunned me, they have never talked ill of me, and they would spring to my defence if someone else did.

i was not the first in my family to fall away, so my situation is not a unique one. and while i know they ache for my valiant return to truth they still love me and respect me.

if they had shut me out i don't think i could have handled it. Dark, your finacee must love you a whole hell of a lot. what she's being put through sounds like a nightmare.

[silverfox]

Originally Posted by nate

Hey, what's this all about? Were there different versions printed? What changed?

Thanks.
Nate

I had no idea there were different versions. Dark explains in his thread titled "Letter of Introduction".


http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=416

[keene maverick]

Originally Posted by silverfox

I had no idea there were different versions. Dark explains in his thread titled "Letter of Introduction".


http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=416

Yeah. One of our favorite past-times is to find a really old BoM and read through it, comparing it with the others. We're trying to figure out WHEN a lot of the changes happened. We've noticed that somewhere between 1977 and 1983, the phrase "white and delightsome" was changed to "pure and delightsome."

And in that same version change, there were about 35 words added in to Alma, for no apparent reason.

[silverfox]

Originally Posted by keene maverick

Yeah. One of our favorite past-times is to find a really old BoM and read through it, comparing it with the others. We're trying to figure out WHEN a lot of the changes happened. We've noticed that somewhere between 1977 and 1983, the phrase "white and delightsome" was changed to "pure and delightsome."

And in that same version change, there were about 35 words added in to Alma, for no apparent reason.

So it sounds like the church never came out and announced the changes? They just kind of slid them in there? Interesting. Thanks for posting this.

[nate]

Originally Posted by darkslider

I am not sure if you are being facetious or not. If you are asking in the quest of knowledge, please post so. . . Because I would hate to swamp you with changes if you already know about them.

-Bryan

No, I'm not being facetious. I know about the different versions of the first vision, but if the earlier versions of the BOM have different discrepancies, I haven't as of yet heard of them, and would like to.
Please share, or point me somewhere so I can read about it.

Thanks.
Nate

Originally Posted by nate

No, I'm not being facetious. I know about the different versions of the first vision, but if the earlier versions of the BOM have different discrepancies, I haven't as of yet heard of them, and would like to.
Please share, or point me somewhere so I can read about it.

Thanks.
Nate

Ok, I can and will respond to this. . .but I am getting ready for the Get-together. I promise I will not go to sleep tonight until I have answered this question.

[nate]

Originally Posted by darkslider

Ok, I can and will respond to this. . .but I am getting ready for the Get-together. I promise I will not go to sleep tonight until I have answered this question.

Excellent. Thank you. I'm looking forward to the search for an old version!

Alright, I have a few minutes now and will be posting the response that I promised.

Starting at the beginning. This article details many of the changes made to the Book of Mormon (Not counting the 1920 edition, made popular by the addition of Chapter headings and Footnotes, courtesy of James E. Talmage)

Major changes

The four following revisions occur in 1 Nephi. Since passages in the rest of the Book of Mormon which described Jesus as Father and Supreme God were not changed, is it possible that Joseph Smith intended to revise the whole Book of Mormon to reflect tritheism but only barely began the project? He may have given up, realizing that revising the Book of Mormon's theology would often require major rewriting rather than simple insertions or word replacement.
1830 Edition
1837 Edition (emphasis added)


1 Ne. 11:19
the virgin whom thou seest is the
mother of God, after the manner of
the flesh

1 Ne. 11:19
the virgin whom thou seest is the
mother of the Son of God, after the
manner of the flesh.

1 Ne. 11:21
Behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Eternal Father!


1 Ne. 11:21
Behold the Lamb of God, yea, even
the Son of the Eternal Father!

1 Ne. 11:32
[the Lamb of God] was taken by the people; yea, the everlasting God was judged of the world.

1 Ne. 11:32
[the Lamb of God] was taken by the people; yea, the Son of the everlasting God was judged of the world.

1 Ne. 13:40
[these records] shall make known to
all … that the Lamb of God is the Eternal Father, and the Savior of the world.

1 Ne. 13:40
[these records] shall make known to
all … that the Lamb of God is the Son
of the Eternal Father, and the Savior
of the world.

The original text of Mosiah 21:28 reads: "And now Limhi was again filled with joy, on learning from the mouth of Ammon that king Benjamin had a gift from God, whereby he could interpret such engravings; yea, and Ammon also did rejoice."

The problem, of course, is that king Benjamin was dead by this time (Mosiah 6:5). This reference was changed to 'Mosiah' in the 1837 and subsequent editions. However, it appears that this was not the only
place where such a change was made. The original text of Ether 4:1 reads: "...and for this cause did king Benjamin keep them, that they should not come unto the world until after Christ shew himself unto his people."

Again, Benjamin was changed to "Mosiah" in subsequent editions. The fact that there are two such changes leads one to speculate that Joseph Smith may possibly have had a slightly different course in mind for the life of King Benjamin and had perhaps killed off Benjamin prematurely while rewriting the lost 116 pages of the Book of Mormon.

The original text of I Nephi 12:18 reads: "...yea, even the word of the justice of the Eternal God, and Jesus Christ, which is the Lamb of God..."

The problem here is that the name 'Jesus Christ' was not revealed to the Nephites until II Nephi 10:3.
"Wherefore, as I said unto you, it must needs be expedient that Christ--for in the last night the angel spake unto me that this should be his name--should come among the Jews..."

In order to correct this contradiction, the text of I Nephi 12:18 was changed to read 'Messiah' instead of 'Jesus Christ'. How does the church explain that?

The original text of I Nephi 20:1 reads:
"Hearken and hear this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of the Lord, and make mention of the God of Israel; yet they swear not in truth, nor righteousness."

In 1840 this verse was changed to read:
"Hearken and hear this, O house of Jacob, who are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, or out of the waters of baptism , who swear by the name of the Lord, and make mention of the God of Israel, yet they swear not in truth nor in righteousness."

The phrase "or out of the waters of baptism" was inserted in the 1840 edition. Why did it take God ten years to decide to introduce the ordinance of baptism into Old Testament text?

The original text of II Nephi 16:2 reads:

"Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly."

This is a quotation from the King James Version of the Bible, specifically Isaiah 6:2. In a rare grammatical mistake, the KJV has an incorrect plural for 'seraph'. The correct plural, of course, should be 'seraphim', as the later text of II Nephi 16:2 reads. How does one explain that Joseph Smith would make the same exact spelling error in the BofM "translation" that the writers of the KJV of the Bible made centuries before?

Ain't ain't a word
(But it would sure feel at home in the 1830 Book of Mormon)

It has already been shown that the witnesses to the translation process and also through the comments of former church leaders, that the Book of Mormon should have been virtually perfect and free from even the slightest mistakes. Certainly there shouldn’t have been thousands of mistakes in what was called “the most correct of any book on the earth”. However, let’s take a look at some of the more obvious grammatical errors Joseph Smith made while “translating with the aid and power of God”.

One of the most frequent mistakes in the first edition of the Book of Mormon is the use of the word "was" instead of the word "were". The following are extracts from the first edition of the Book of Mormon in which the word "was" has been changed in later editions to "were" The page number you see after each quote corresponds to the original page number that the quote was on in the 1830 Book of Mormon (which was not divided into chapters and verses). Following the page number is the location of the quote in the current Book of Mormon:


"... and also of Adam and Eve, which was our first parents ..." (page 15) [1 Nephi 5:11]
"Wherefore, all mankind was in a lost and in a fallen state ..." (page 22) [1 Nephi 10:6]
"And all these things of which I have spoken, was done ..." (page 23) [1 Nephi 10:1116]
"... and loosed the bands which was upon my wrists ..." (page 49) [1 Nephi 18:15]
"And great was the covenants of the Lord ..." (page 66) [2 Nephi 3:4]
"... and they were surrounded by the king's guard, and was taken, and was bound, and was committed to prison." (page 169) [Mosiah 7:7]
"... and these interpreters was doubtless prepared ... (page 173) [Mosiah 8:19]
"... and the seats which was set apart for the high priests, which was above all the other seats ..." (page 178) [Mosiah 11:11]
"... the arms of mercy was extended towards them; for the arms of mercy was extended ..." (page 189) [Mosiah 16:12]
"... both Alma and Helam was buried in the water ..." (page 192) [Mosiah 18:14]
"And the priests was not to depend upon the people ..." (page 193) [Mosiah 18:26]
"... and those that was with him." (page 195) [Mosiah 19:18]
"... the afflictions of the Nephites was great ..." (page 198) [Mosiah 21:5]
"... many of his people was desirous to be baptized ..." (page 200) [Mosiah 21:33]
"And now there was seven Churches ..." (page 209) [Mosiah 25:23]
"... there was many of the rising generation ..." (page 209)
"... those who committed sin that was in the church ..." (page 209)
"Now the sons of Mosiah was numbered ..." (page 212) [Mosiah 27:8]
"... I had much desire that ye was not in the state of dilemma ..." (page 241) [Alma 7:18]
"... they was angry with me ..." (page 248) [Alma 9:32]
"... the land of Nephi, and the land of Zarahemla, was nearly surrounded..."(page 288) [Alma 22:32]
"But behold there was no wild beasts ..." (page 460) [3 Nephi 4:2]

There are also many places where the word "were" has been changed to "was". The following are extracts from the first edition:
"... but it all were vain ..." (page 142) [Jacob 7:24]
"... an army of the Lamanites were in the borders ..." (page 204) [Mosiah 23:25]
"... inasmuch as it were possible." (page 224) [Alma 1:32]
"Now the object of these Lawyers were to get gain ..." (page 251) [Alma 10:32]
"... every living soul of the Ammonihahites were destroyed ..." (page 267) [Alma 16:9]
"... for the promise of the Lord were , If they should ..." (page 359) [Alma 48:25]
"... there was not a single soul of the Nephites which were slain." (page 362) [Alma 49:23]
"... because it were easy to guard them ..." (page 375) [Alma 53:5]
"And in this year there were continual rejoicing ..." (page 414) [Helaman 3:31]
"And there were but little alteration in the affairs ..." (page 450) Helaman 16:12]
"... therefore there were no chance for the robbers to plunder ..." (page 460) [3 Nephi 4:2]
"... in the which there were so much wickedness ..." (page 463) [3 Nephi 5:6]
"Behold I were about to write them all ..." (page 506) [3 Nephi 26:11]
"... there were no blood shed." (page 519) [Mormon 1:12]
"... and I were forbidden that I should preach unto them ..." (page 519) [Mormon 1:116]

Another common mistake in the first edition of the Book of Mormon is the use of the word "is" when it should read "are". The following are extracts from the first edition in which the word "is" has been changed to "are" in later editions:
"... the tender mercies of the Lord is over all ..." (page 7) [1 Nephi 1:20]
"... the mixture of thy seed, which is among thy brethren ..." (page 30) [1 Nephi 13:30]
"... shall establish the truth of the first, which is of the twelve apostles ..." (page 32) [1 Nephi 13:40]
"... there is, save it be, two churches ..." (page 33) [1 Nephi 14:10]
"... and all things that in them is ..." (page 64) [2 Nephi 2:14]
"... and all things are given them which is expedient ..." (page 65) [2 Nephi 2:27]
"... shall be the words which is expedient in my wisdom ..." (page 67) [2 Nephi 3:19]
"But great is the promises of the Lord ..." (page 85) [2 Nephi 10:21]
"And whoredoms is an abomination before me ..." (page 127) [Jacob 2:28]
"... according to his judgments, which is just ... " (page 150) [Omni v. 22]
"... and prophesied of many things which is to come ..." (page 171) [Mosiah 7:26]
"... or any likeness of things which is in heaven above, or which is in the earth beneath, or which [b]is[b/] the water under the earth." (page 184) [Mosiah 13:12]
"Behold, here is the waters of Mormon ..." (page 192) [Mosiah 18:8]
"... ye hope for things which is not seen, which are true." (page 315) [Alma 32:21]
"... Behold, here is our weapons of war ..." (page 346) [Alma 44:8]

In the following extracts from the first edition of the Book of Mormon the word "much" has been changed to "many" in later editions:
"... and wild goats, and also much horses." (page 145) [Enos v. 21]
"... and destroy the souls of much people." (page 217) [Mosiah 29:7]

In the following extracts from the first edition of the Book of Mormon the word "had" has been deleted and the words "not ought" have been rearranged to ought not in later edition:
"... lest he should look for that he had not ought and he should perish." (page 173) [Mosiah 8:13]
"And he told them that these things had not ought to be ..." (page 220) [Mosiah 29:34]
"... and that they had not ought to murder ..." (page 289) [Alma 23:3]
"I had not ought to harrow up in my desires ..." (page 303) [Alma 29:4]

Another common mistake in the first edition of the Book of Mormon is the use of the word "a" where it does not belong. In the following extracts from the first edition the word "a" has been deleted in later editions:
"As I was a journeying to see a very near kindred ..." (page 249) [Alma 10:7]
"And as I was a going thither ..." (page 249) [Alma 10:8]
"... the foundation of the destruction of this people is a beginning to be laid ..." (page 251) [Alma 10:27]
"... he met with the sons of Mosiah, a journeying towards the land ..." (page 269) [Alma 17:1]
"... as Ammon and Lamoni was a journeying thither ..." (page 280) [Alma 20:8]
"... there he found Muloki a preaching the word ..." (page 284) [Alma 21:11]
"... went about from house to house, a begging for his food." (page 309) [Alma 30:56]
"And Korihor did go about from house to house, a begging food ..." (page 309) [Alma 30:58]
"... Moroni, on the other hand, had been a preparing the minds ..." (page 358) [Alma 48:7]
"And thus Moroni had obtained a possession of the city Mulek ..." (page 373) [Alma 52:26]
"... the armies of the Lamanites are a marching towards the city ..." (page 389) [Alma 57:31]
"... the Lamanites saw that Moroni was a coming against them ..." (page 403) [Alma 62:31]
"... the Lamanites a marching towards them ..." (page 529) [Mormon 6:7]

In the following extracts from the first edition of the Book of Mormon the word "for" has been deleted in later editions:
"... the Lamanites did gather themselves together for to sing ..." (page 196) [Mosiah 20:1]
"... they did prepare for to meet them ..." (page 225) [Alma 2:12]
"... the Son of God, which should come for to redeem his people ..." (page 239) [Alma 6:8]
"Now it was for the sole purpose for to get gain ..." (page 252) [Alma 11:20]
"... preparing the hearts of the children of men for to receive his word ..." (page 261) [Alma 13:24]
"... did pour out his spirit on all the face of the land, for to prepare ..." (page 268) [Alma 16:16]
"... after their many struggles for to destroy them ..." (page 299) [Alma 27:1]
"... free intercourse one with another, for to buy and to sell ..." (page 422) [Helaman 6:8]
"... we depend upon them for to teach us the word ..." (page 451) [Helaman 16:21]
"... they did cast up mighty heaps of earth for to get ore ... " (page 560) [Ether 10:23]

On page 260 of the first edition the following statement appears:
"Behold, the Scriptures are before you; if ye will arrest them, it shall be to your own destruction."
In the 1964 reprint (Alma 13:20) this has been changed to read:
"Behold, the scriptures are before you; if ye will wrest them it shall be to your own destruction."

A similar mistake is found on page 336 of the first edition:
"... some have arrested the Scriptures ..."
In the 1964 reprint (Alma 41:1) this has been changed to read:
"... some have wrested the scriptures ..."

Because of the length of this list. . . I will continue in the next post. Stupid 20,000 character limit ;P

Continuation:

The following are extracts from the first edition of the Book of Mormon. The word "arriven" has been changed to "arrived" in later editions:
"... when they had arriven in the borders of the land ..." (page 270) [Alma 17:13]
"... wo unto this people, because of this time which has arriven ..." (page 443) [Helaman 13:24]

The following are extracts from the first edition. The word "respects" has been changed to "respect" in later editions:
"... having no respects to persons as to those who stood in need ..." (page 224) [Alma 1:30]
"... they did impart the word of God, without any respects of persons ..." (page 268) [Helaman 13:24]

The two extracts which follow are from the first edition of the Book of Mormon. The word "fell" has been changed to "fallen" in later editions:
"... the multitude beheld that the man had fell dead ..." (page 278) [Alma 19:24]
"But they had fell into great errors ..." (page 310) [Alma 31:9]

The following extracts are from the first edition of the Book of Mormon. The word "wrote" has been changed to "written" in later editions:
"And thus ended the record of Alma, which was wrote upon the plates of Nephi." (page 347) [Alma 44:24]
"... I have wrote unto you somewhat concerning this war ..." (page 377) [Alma 54:5]
"... therefore I have wrote this epistle ..." (page 457) [3 Nephi 3:5]
"... I have wrote them to the intent ..." (page 506) [3 Nephi 26:8]

The following are extracts from the first edition. The expression "exceeding fraid" has been changed to "exceedingly afraid" in later editions:
"... they were exceeding fraid ; yea, they feared to displease the king ..." (page 354) [Alma 47:2]
"... they were exceeding fraid, lest there were a plan laid ..." (page 392) [Alma 58:24]
"... the Lamanites were exceeding fraid ..." (page 415) [Helaman 4:3]

On page 76 of the first edition the following appears:
"The Lord God hath appointed mine ear ..."
In the 1964 edition (2 Nephi 7:5)
"The Lord God hath opened mine ear ..."

On page 74 of the first edition this statement appears:
"... my brother hath desired me that I should speak unto you."
In the 1964 reprint (2 Nephi 6:4) this has been changed to read:
"... my brother has desired that I should speak unto you."

On page 56 of the first edition of the Book of Mormon this statement appears:
"And now it came to pass that after I, Nephi, after that I had read these things ..."
In the 1964 reprint (1 Nephi 22:1) four words have been deleted:
"And now it came to pass that I, Nephi, had read these things ..."

The following are extracts from the first edition of the Book of Mormon. The word "began" has been changed to "begun" in later editions.
"... it had sprang forth, and began to bear fruit." (page 132) [Jacob 5:17
"... they had began to possess the land of Amulon, and had began to till the ground." (page 204) [Mosiah 23:31]
"... they had began to settle the affairs ..." (page 368) [Alma 51:12]
"... had began his march towards the land ..." (page 372) [Alma 52:15]
"... the church had began to dwindle ..." (page 417) [Helaman 4:23]

On page 568 of the first edition this statement appears:
"... the people upon all the face of the land were a shedding blood, and there was none to constrain them."
In the 1964 edition (Ether 13:31) this has been changed to read:
"... the people upon the face of the land were shedding blood, and there was none to restrain them."


On page 135 of the first edition we find this statement:
"... I had hope to preserve, to have laid up fruit thereof ..."
In the 1964 reprint (Jacob 5:46) this was changed to read:
"... I had hoped to preserve, to have laid up fruit thereof ..."

On page 138 of the first edition this statement appears:
"... and the fruit were equal ..."
In the 1964 reprint (Jacob 5:74) this has been changed to read:
"... and the fruits were equal ..."

On page 171 of the first edition of the Book of Mormon we find the following:
"... and the effects thereof, is poison."
In the 1964 reprint (Mosiah 7:30) this has been changed to read:
"... and the effect thereof is poison."

The following are extracts from the first edition of the Book of Mormon. The word "retained" has been changed to "regained" in later editions.
"... to the maintaining those parts of the land, of the which we had retained of our possessions ..." (page 390) [Alma 58:3]
"... that he may support those parts of our country which he hath retained ..." (page 397) [Alma 60:24]
"... and having retained many of the Nephites which had been taken ..." (page 403) [Alma 62:30]
"... even until they had retained the one half of their property ..." (page 416) [Helaman 4:16]

The extracts that follow are from the first edition of the Book of Mormon; the word "took" has been changed to "taken" in later editions:
"... and behold, we have took of their wine ..." (page 379) [Alma 55:8]
"... after they had took them, they caused them to enter into a covenant ..." (page 402) [Alma 62:16]
"... the people of Nephi, which had some years before gone over unto the Lamanites, and took upon themselves the name of Lamanites ..." (page 438) [Helaman 11:24]

The extracts that follow are from the first edition; the word "gave" has been changed to "given" in later editions:
"... and had gave them power to gain possession ..." (page 380) [Alma 55:20]
"... even as I have broken bread, and blessed it, and gave it unto you." (page 490) [3 Nephi 18:6]

On page 359 of the first edition this statement appears:
"... the Devil would never have no power over the hearts of the children of men."
In the 1964 reprint (Alma 48:17) the double negative has been deleted:
"... the devil would never have power over the hearts of the children of men."

A similar mistake appears on page 141 of the first edition:
"... neither hath been, nor never will be."
In the 1964 reprint (Jacob 7:9) this has been changed to read:
"... neither has been, nor ever will be."

The extracts that follow are from the first edition; the word "no" has been changed to "any" in later editions:
"... have not sought gold nor silver, nor no manner of riches of you ..." (page 157) [Mosiah 2:12]
"... there shall be no other name given, nor no other way nor means ..." (page 161) [Mosiah 3:17]
"... nor murdering, nor no manner of iniquity ..." (page 218) [Mosiah 29:14]
"... they did not fight against God no more ..." (page 290) [Alma 23:7]
"... nor murders, nor no manner of lasciviousness ..." (page 515) [4 Nephi v. 16]
"... neither were there Lamanites, nor no manner of Ites ..." (page 515) [4 Nephi v. 17]

On page 289 of the first edition this statement appears:
"... or Omner, or Himni, nor neither of their brethren ..."
In the 1964 edition (Alma 23:1) this has been changed to read:
"... or Omner, or Himni, nor either of their brethren ..."

The two extracts that follow are from the first edition of the Book of Mormon; the word "an" has been deleted in later editions:
"And behold, they would have carried this plan into an effect ..." (page 365) [Alma 50:30]
"... we were desirous to bring a stratagem into an effect upon them ..." (page 384) [Alma 56:30]

The following are extracts from the first edition of the Book of Mormon. The word "done" has been changed to "did" in later editions.
"... the servant of the Lord of the vineyard, done according to the word of the Lord of the vineyard ..." (page 132) [Jacob 5:10]
"... and this he done that he might overthrow the doctrine of Christ." (page 140) [Jacob 7:2]
"... all this he done, for the sole purpose ..." (page 170) [Mosiah 7:22]
"... and this they done throughout all the land." (page 220) [Mosiah 29:41]
"... and this he done that he might subject them to him." (page 225) [Alma 2:10]
"... this they done that they might provide food ..." (page 269) [Alma 17:7]
"Now this he done that he might preserve their hatred ..." (page 340) [Alma 43:7]
"... this he done that he might usurp great power over them ..." (page 341) [Alma 43:8]

On the title page of the first edition (which was supposed to have been translated from the gold plates) this ironic statement appears:
"... now if there be fault, it be the mistake of men ..."
In the 1964 edition this has been changed to read:
"... now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men ..."

It is interesting to note that even the signed statement by the eight witnesses to the Book of Mormon has been altered. In the 1830 edition (last page) it read:
"... that Joseph Smith, Jr. the Author and Proprietor of this work, has shewn unto us the plates ... "

In the 1964 edition it reads:"... That Joseph Smith, Jun., the Translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates ... "


Also, I have been unable to narrow it down further at this time, but it is some time between 1977 and 1983 that 35 extra words were added to Alma 32:30. Also it is in that same time span that 2 Nephi 30:6 was changed from "White and Delightsome" to "Pure and Delightsome".

There you go. A quick rundown.

Please note: The LDS Church has never made any statements about making changes to the Book of Mormon (except the ones that deny any changes being made).

"... we heard a voice from out of the bright light above us, saying, 'These plates have been revealed by the power of God, and they have been translated by the power of God. The translation of them which you have seen is correct, and I command you to bear record of what you now see and hear.'" (History of the Church, by Joseph Smith, Vol. 1, pp. 54-55)

Joseph Smith once made the claim that the Book of Mormon was "...the most correct of any book on the earth ... " (History of the Church, Vol. 4, page 461). Over the next 170+ years, Mormon apologists have defended the book and this bold claim by saying that the first Prophet of this dispensation was merely saying the doctrines of the Book of Mormon were "the most correct of any book on the earth" and that the thousands of changes made to the book were, almost without exception, minor grammatical and/or punctuation changes. Men like Joseph Fielding Smith had said things like,

"...enemies of the Church...have made the statement that there have been one or two or more thousand changes in the Book of Mormon since the first edition was published. Well, of course, there is no truth in that statement." (The Improvement Era, December, 1961, pg. 924)

Frankly, I believed the leaders of the church when they said things like this. After all, these men were Prophets and Apostles of God. Surely they would have no reason to lie about things such as changes to the Book of Mormon. It wasn’t until after I left the church that I took a much closer look at the claim that there had been nearly 4,000 changes to the Book of Mormon.

Should we expect perfection?

Surprisingly, the answer to this question is “Yes”. We have detailed information as to exactly how the Book of Mormon was translated. It was, quite literally, supposed to have been the first book ever written with the aid of God himself. Considering the methodical means by which the gold plates were translated, there was little, if any, room for error. Consider the following quotes:

"I will now give you a description of the manner in which the Book of Mormon was translated. Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English." (An Address to All Believers in Christ, by David Whitmer, 1887, page 12)

"'Martin [Harris] explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the prophet and written by Martin, and when finished he would say, "Written," and if correctly written, that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven (sic) on the plates, precisely in the language then used.'" (Myth of the Manuscript Found, Juvenile Instructor Office, 1883 edition, page 91)

George Reynolds, who was a member of the First Council of the Seventy, 1890-1909, made this statement in 1883:

"But at the outset it must be recollected that the translation was accomplished by no common method, by no ordinary means. It was done by divine aid. There were no delays over obscure passages, no difficulties over the choice of words, no stoppages from the ignorance of the translator; no time was wasted in investigation or argument over the value, intent or meaning of certain characters, and there were no references to authorities. These difficulties to human work were removed. All was as simple as when a clerk writes from dictation. The translation of the characters appeared on the Urim and Thummim, sentence by sentence, and as soon as one was correctly transcribed the next would appear." (Myth of the Manuscript Found, 1883 edition, page 71)

Oliver B. Huntington recorded in his journal that in 1881 Joseph F. Smith, who became the sixth President of the Mormon Church, taught that the Lord gave Joseph Smith the exact English wording and spelling that he should use in the Book of Mormon:

"Saturday Feb. 25, 1881, I went to Provo to a quarterly Stake Conference. Heard Joseph F. Smith describe the manner of translating the Book of Mormon by Joseph Smith the Prophet and Seer, which was as follows as near as I can recollect the substance of his description. Joseph did not render the writing on the gold plates into the English language in his own style of language as many people believe, but every word and every letter was given to him by the gift and power of God. So it is the work of God and not of Joseph Smith, and it was done in this way .... The Lord caused each word spelled as it is in the book to appear on the stones in short sentences or words, and when Joseph had uttered the sentence or word before him and the scribe had written it properly, that sentence would disappear and another appear. And if there was a word wrongly written or even a letter incorrect the writing on the stones would remain there. Then Joseph would require the scribe to spell the reading of the last spoken and thus find the mistake and when corrected the sentence would disappear as usual." (Journal of Oliver B. Huntington, page 168 of typed copy at Utah State Historical Society)


Logical Conclusion

So, it would appear that Joseph Fielding Smith was telling a bold faced lie when he said,

"...enemies of the Church...have made the statement that there have been one or two or more thousand changes in the Book of Mormon since the first edition was published. Well, of course, there is no truth in that statement." (The Improvement Era, December, 1961, pg. 924)

It is quite improbable that a person as high ranking as Joseph Fielding Smith would have been unaware of the fact that nearly 4,000 changes had been made over the years to the Book of Mormon. Sadly, it has been shown time and time again that when church leaders say something, the rank and file believe it without question.

Keep in mind, virtually none of Joseph's mistakes were simple misspellings (those were almost always fixed by the typesetter) and Joseph Smith is told to have "translated the plates by the gift and power of God". Apparently, it wasn't Joseph who was lacking in a formal education, but rather it was God who seemed to lack in basic grammar skills. After all, let's not forget that Joseph F. Smith said that the Book of Mormon " ...is the work of God and not of Joseph Smith."

[miss taken]

Logical Conclusion

So, it would appear that Joseph Fielding Smith was telling a bold faced lie when he said,

"...enemies of the Church...have made the statement that there have been one or two or more thousand changes in the Book of Mormon since the first edition was published. Well, of course, there is no truth in that statement." (The Improvement Era, December, 1961, pg. 924)

I do agree with you here Darkslider, absolutely 100%.
The church has been making corrections and that should not be denied, because to do so would be a bare faced lie.

Having said that are there any accounts of GA's who DO admit that changes have been made, and have they given their reasoning???

Mary